rec.autos.simulators

by **Goy Larse** » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 20:26:08

> How's the online racing?

Very good actually, the TPTCC will be running an A and B group this
season with 22 cars in each, which is the max we've been able to run

There are the odd glitches that we normally see with the N3 based TPTCC,
but whether this is down to NHeat or the fact that we're using custom
tracks I don't know, we had the odd problem on some of the custom tracks
in N3 last season as well

The lack of yellows in NHeat doesn't bother us of course :-), so even
though NHeat's MP code probably isn't up to Papy's standards, it's more
bandwidth consuming for one, it's more than good enough for some fun
online league racing, and from what I've seen the guys post so far, the
collision detection is more forgiving as well, i.e., a gentle touch
won't send you skywards

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.racesimcentral.net/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Eldre** » Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:34:51

> Not in a stock car sim, no. Still shouldn't be for that matter.

>-John

Why not? Wouldn't it help people improve their laptimes? Don't the real teams
use it?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **John Pancoas** » Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:29:17

Nope. It's not allowed to be used by the teams. Cal Wells showed up at
Daytona practices this past year, loaded to the hilt with gear,(Nascar
allowed him to experiment with it before the actual races) with all the
other teams paying close attention, to see the results, in terms of if this
area needed to change............due to his team's results, input, etc.,
they didn't.<G>

All the laptops, etc. you see at a Nascar race show own/competitor
laptimes, weather, broadcasts, pit stop info., etc., but nothing close to
the telemetry of the open wheeled series is allowed.

Reasons run from keeping costs lower, to maintaining the "more basic"
style of racing.......and one I support fwiw, thought the cars are so
temperamental now, not sure if it matters if it's allowed or not; the series
is getting to techie anyway in some ways, IMO.

Thank God for local tracks<G>

-John

> > Not in a stock car sim, no. Still shouldn't be for that matter.

> >-John

> Why not? Wouldn't it help people improve their laptimes? Don't the real
teams
> use it?

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank - under construction...

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Dan Belch** » Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:35:24

The only telemetry a stock car has available is the telemetry we see on TV that
shows speed, RPM, throttle, and brake. Anything else is banned by NASCAR.

-----------------------------------------
Dan Belcher
Webmaster,
http://www.gplworld.racesim.net/simcrash

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:53:10

That's because F12000 and F12000CS were garbage. It's a very small and
deserved break for those who bought the previous 2 bug-ridden messes.

Marc

> I don't get the impression the 2002 is an Addon disc. Looking at the
> program, it is a separate install. Not having N4 is not a problem. But
> those who have already purchased N4 might not find enough new features to
> justify $50. Especially when EA makes a huge leap from F1cs2k to f12001
for
> only $30.
> dave henrie

> > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 will
> have
> > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30 for
> the
> > N2002.
> > -Stuart Becktell

> > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002
> > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of
> > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing.

> > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself.
It's
> > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the
first
> > place
> > > > IMO.

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 03 Jan 2002 23:02:44

Papyrus made their leap with N4. That truly was worth $50. But to merely
add some Nascar Heat features and fix the car texture size seems a-bit much
to be charging full price.(which is $10 bucks to high to start with) So, in
the face of F1 2001's low price and great word of mouth, the asking price
for N2002 just seems steep, really steep.(love those engine noises
tho...fired up N4 for the first time in months to compare the two...damn I
miss my athlon....)
dave henrie

> That's because F12000 and F12000CS were garbage. It's a very small and
> deserved break for those who bought the previous 2 bug-ridden messes.

> Marc

> > I don't get the impression the 2002 is an Addon disc. Looking at the
> > program, it is a separate install. Not having N4 is not a problem. But
> > those who have already purchased N4 might not find enough new features
to
> > justify $50. Especially when EA makes a huge leap from F1cs2k to f12001
> for
> > only $30.
> > dave henrie

> > > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 will
> > have
> > > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30
for
> > the
> > > N2002.
> > > -Stuart Becktell

> > > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002
> > > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of
> > > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing.

> > > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself.
> It's
> > > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the
> first
> > > place
> > > > > IMO.

by **Gerald Moo** » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 03:16:58

In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and
complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly".

Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the
"old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds,
the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5
seconds or so.

The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it
also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons.
Typically this is in the middle of a turn, where the car should
normally be accelerating. Suddenly, you have a car just poking along
where everyone else is getting hard into the gas... which is a recipe
for disaster, especially at tracks like North Carolina or Darlington
where you kind of get stuck on the wall when this happens... right in
the middle of the turn exit. The drivers immediately following can
typically avoid the slow car, but drivers further behind have no idea
trouble is brewing until it is too late. Suddenly a relatively minor
driver error turns into a multiple car "incident".

A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real
life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics,
handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the
wall, but not afterwards.

I think this is one of the major problems with the game. I appreciate
the efforts made to curtail cheating. But this was a heavy-fisted and
not terribly well thought out response that in some instances is worse
than the original issue.

Gerald Moore

> > Oh... forgot one thing: can we get a *real* fix to that wall riding problem
> > this time - please?
> > The old "fix" is downright dangerous and have riuned a lot of tracks Imho.

> what is the problem with wall riding? what is the old fix?

by **Ed Solhei** » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 03:33:34

Gerald hit it spot on here - on all accounts; explaining the problem
aswell as how it should have been solved.

Thanks Gerald - I couldn't have said it any better myself.

--
ed_

> In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and
> complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly".

> Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the
> "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds,
> the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5
> seconds or so.

> The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it
> also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons.
> Typically this is in the middle of a turn, where the car should
> normally be accelerating. Suddenly, you have a car just poking along
> where everyone else is getting hard into the gas... which is a recipe
> for disaster, especially at tracks like North Carolina or Darlington
> where you kind of get stuck on the wall when this happens... right in
> the middle of the turn exit. The drivers immediately following can
> typically avoid the slow car, but drivers further behind have no idea
> trouble is brewing until it is too late. Suddenly a relatively minor
> driver error turns into a multiple car "incident".

> A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real
> life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics,
> handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the
> wall, but not afterwards.

> I think this is one of the major problems with the game. I appreciate
> the efforts made to curtail cheating. But this was a heavy-fisted and
> not terribly well thought out response that in some instances is worse
> than the original issue.

> Gerald Moore

- Show quoted text -

> > > Oh... forgot one thing: can we get a *real* fix to that wall riding
problem
> > > this time - please?
> > > The old "fix" is downright dangerous and have riuned a lot of tracks
Imho.

> > what is the problem with wall riding? what is the old fix?

by **Gerald Moo** » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 03:25:44

I dunno. Real world drivers get "seat of the pants" feedback that we
don't get. I think we deserve something to make up the difference.
It's not "realistic", it's just another way of giving similar
feedback. It's not extra information, it's just in a different
format. The simulation is not in what you see, it is your response to
the information that matters.

I haven't played the demo. What kind of telemetry are we talking
about here?

Gerald

> Not in a stock car sim, no. Still shouldn't be for that matter.

> -John

> > > - exceeded them selfs that is!

> > > N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racing
> saga.
> > > There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticks
> out
> > > above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see
> whats
> > > *really* going on...

> > Um, isn't telemetry something they should have done a long time ago?

> > David G Fisher

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 04:16:50

> In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and
> complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly".

> Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the
> "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds,
> the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5
> seconds or so.

> The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it
> also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons.
[...]
> A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real
> life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics,
> handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the
> wall, but not afterwards.

hm. I agree (of course) that it isn't a very elegant solution, but
does it really matter? I mean, as long as wallriding is roughly as
imparing in N4 as in RL, the particular mechanics of punishment are
mostly cosmetic, don't you think?

--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
"Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm?leren v?r."

by **Dan Belch** » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 05:06:52

During replays, at the top of the screen, it has two bars that measure how much
throttle and/or brake is being used at the time.

-----------------------------------------
Dan Belcher
Webmaster,
http://www.gplworld.racesim.net/simcrash

by **The Other Larr** » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 05:26:51

Gerald,

I agree...

Make it stick like flypaper while on the wall, after a set number of seconds
(we ALL brush the wall from time to time), but turn that nonsense off once
contact is broken.

-Larry

> In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and
> complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly".

> Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the
> "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds,
> the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5
> seconds or so.

> The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it
> also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons.
> Typically this is in the middle of a turn, where the car should
> normally be accelerating. Suddenly, you have a car just poking along
> where everyone else is getting hard into the gas... which is a recipe
> for disaster, especially at tracks like North Carolina or Darlington
> where you kind of get stuck on the wall when this happens... right in
> the middle of the turn exit. The drivers immediately following can
> typically avoid the slow car, but drivers further behind have no idea
> trouble is brewing until it is too late. Suddenly a relatively minor
> driver error turns into a multiple car "incident".

> A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real
> life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics,
> handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the
> wall, but not afterwards.

> I think this is one of the major problems with the game. I appreciate
> the efforts made to curtail cheating. But this was a heavy-fisted and
> not terribly well thought out response that in some instances is worse
> than the original issue.

> Gerald Moore

- Show quoted text -

> > > Oh... forgot one thing: can we get a *real* fix to that wall riding
problem
> > > this time - please?
> > > The old "fix" is downright dangerous and have riuned a lot of tracks
Imho.

> > what is the problem with wall riding? what is the old fix?

by **Ed Solhei** » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 07:29:43

I would say that it matter a whole lot..... IMHO the current situation
(read: "fix") has made some of the more interresting tracks downright
dangerous to race at. Especially with anything that look like a decent sized
field.. (20-ish atleast.)

Take Darlington for instance - it's unraceable (atleast safely) online.

--
ed_

> > In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and
> > complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly".

> > Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the
> > "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds,
> > the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5
> > seconds or so.

> > The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it
> > also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons.
> [...]
> > A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real
> > life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics,
> > handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the
> > wall, but not afterwards.

> hm. I agree (of course) that it isn't a very elegant solution, but
> does it really matter? I mean, as long as wallriding is roughly as
> imparing in N4 as in RL, the particular mechanics of punishment are
> mostly cosmetic, don't you think?

> --
> Gunnar
> #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
> "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm?leren v?r."

by **Michael Cran** » Sat, 05 Jan 2002 03:20:33

It's also not entirely reliable. It occasionally gives me the penalty at
Darlington when I don't even touch the wall, just get very close to
it....considering the line at Darlington and the way the tires wear it's
almost imposiblle to be competitive and not get within inches of the wall at
some point. It's only done it to me 3 times since I patched, but that's too
many when it costs wrecks and lost positions for just regular racing.

> I would say that it matter a whole lot..... IMHO the current situation
> (read: "fix") has made some of the more interresting tracks downright
> dangerous to race at. Especially with anything that look like a decent
sized
> field.. (20-ish atleast.)

> Take Darlington for instance - it's unraceable (atleast safely) online.

> --
> ed_

> > > In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and
> > > complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly".

> > > Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the
> > > "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds,
> > > the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5
> > > seconds or so.

> > > The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it
> > > also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons.
> > [...]
> > > A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real
> > > life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics,
> > > handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the
> > > wall, but not afterwards.

> > hm. I agree (of course) that it isn't a very elegant solution, but
> > does it really matter? I mean, as long as wallriding is roughly as
> > imparing in N4 as in RL, the particular mechanics of punishment are
> > mostly cosmetic, don't you think?

> > --
> > Gunnar
> > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo:
2
> > "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm?leren v?r."

by **Will DeRiver** » Sat, 05 Jan 2002 09:09:39

lol...you like that? I've had it do it to me from rubbing another car! Oh
yeah...great solution there. <rolls eyes>
--
- Will DeRivera
- GPL Rank 103.93
- http://www.numic.net
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- Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world.

rec.autos.simulators

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!