rec.autos.simulators

Is this a bad moment to mention that I have written a convertion program
for ICR2 -> N2, but I want to charge for it (although I intend to have a
free version with some limitations)?. I can honestly say that I think it
has been a task a few magnitudes greater in difficulty than painting a car.
I have also been anticipating that some will be none too happy with the
idea...

Be gentle please!.

Dave Noonan

P.S. Anyone willing to send me a 16-bit texture (.m16) from a rendition
track?.

Thank GOD I am artistic...the game doesnt mean THAT much to me :))))))

Mike Frazer

Go check out alt.bin.sim.autos
for my "next" project. Look at MOMO racing team!
Hey! Its even FREE!

=8>]

-DG-

What I DO want to comment on, Mr. Gary, is your beligerent, obnoxious
attitude.  Is there really any need to publicly refer to someone as a
"moron" and make sniping little comments about his "sweetheart"
simply because he makes an innocent request in this newsgroup?
Mr. McKinley asked a simple question, the type of question that
appears many times a day in this newsgroup.  I may be wrong, but I
always assumed the purpose of this newsgroup was the exchange of
information and ideas to enhance and improve simulation racing for all
of us.   Perhaps you and Richard Manning should get together and form
your own simulator newsgroup where you can whine, brag, flame, and
insult to your hearts' content.

As for charging a fee for a paintjob or a utility, can you in all
honesty say that you have NEVER downloaded any add-ons that someone
else has created for any of the sims?  If you HAVE downloaded any of
these enhancements, have you ever thought about sending the author a
few bucks in appreciation of their time and efforts?  Or are you just
sitting back and having a good chuckle because these suckers are such
pathetic losers for giving their work away for free?

Feel free to flame ME now, bearing in mind that the impact of the
insult upon me is directly proportional to the amount of respect that
I have for the source.

Ian

--
Ed

"A friend of mine suggested I try America Online, I said 'But I already
have
a computer...'"

  Thank YOU, Ian, for sticking up for us "morons"....All I asked was for
someone to PLEASE paint a car so that my wife had her own car to race.  When
the price of having a car painted is TWICE as much as what I paid for the
game, then I think it's time that we reported this guy to the IRS (for tax
evasion, possibly...?) and Papyrus for charging people for using a licensed
product for his own benefit and reaping an income from it.  I thought that to
us "non-Papyrus" types that the game was just that: A GAME!  Not a way to make
money off of it....

Please tell me what you base your statement on when you say "The market
value for "fictional"
and "non-fictional" cars is "zero". If not, I take it that your
statement is hypothetical and
thus means you have "stated" with no true foundation of fact. Stating
that the "market value"
is zero leads one to believe their IS a market and that there is a
certain "value" for this
market. Where is the information on the "value" on this market and "who"
sets the value? In
other words, there couldnt possibly be a "market" if it where based on a
value of "zero". I
suppose this would question your intellegence of "market" principals.

The bottom line is: "painting" or "designing" the pcx files for these
cars is time consuming
and takes not only "know-how", but a certain degree of "design"
expertise. I base the price
I would charge solely on the time and effort it would take to create
what some-one "personally"
asked for. I consider it "art" and "design" to a degree and therefore
would charge for "those"
services rendered from my past experience in art and design.

The fact of the matter is I HAVE been payed in the past for "these"
services. It is not my livelyhood
of course, but it therefore concludes that there IS a "market" for it.

I stated that these designs take me anywhere form 6 to 15 hours to
"collect", "design", and "create".
Now basing this on a general time=price. 10 hours for $70(US) is $7 an
hour and, IMO, a pretty
reasonable amount when it comes to the quality I feel I give from my
experience. If one is "offended"
by this it just goes to show they have no "clue" what the "value" of the
dollar in this day and era.

I can almost guarantee that noone will find a "design" that will match
there "precise" expectations
for certain "logos" and "sponsors". If they have an idea the only way to
get that "idea" into "reality"
or in this case "virtual" reality is to cater to one's exact
description. This is called "customizing"
and there is a "proven" "market" for that.

-David Gary-

Mr. Benson,

Please tell me what you base your statement on when you say "The market
value for "fictional" and "non-fictional" cars is "zero". If not, I take
it that your statement is hypothetical and thus means you have "stated"
with no true foundation of fact. Stating that the "market value"  is zero
leads one to believe their IS a market and that there is a certain "value"
for this market. Where is the information on the "value" on this market
and "who" sets the value? In other words, there couldnt possibly be a
"market" if it where based on a value of "zero". I suppose this would
question your intellegence of "market" principals.

The bottom line is: "painting" or "designing" the pcx files for these cars
is time consuming and takes not only "know-how", but a certain degree of
"design" expertise. I base the price I would charge solely on the time and
effort it would take to create what some-one "personally"  asked for. I
consider it "art" and "design" to a degree and therefore would charge for
"those" services rendered from my past experience in art and design.

The fact of the matter is I HAVE been payed in the past for "these"
services. It is not my livelyhood of course, but it therefore concludes
that there IS a "market" for it.

I stated that these designs take me anywhere form 6 to 15 hours to
"collect", "design", and "create". Now basing this on a general
time=price. 10 hours for $70(US) is $7 an hour and, IMO, a pretty
reasonable amount when it comes to the quality I feel I give from my
experience. If one is "offended" by this it just goes to show they have no
"clue" what the "value" of the dollar in this day and era.

I can almost guarantee that noone will find a "design" that will match
there "precise" expectations for certain "logos" and "sponsors". If they
have an idea the only way to get that "idea" into "reality" or in this
case "virtual" reality is to cater to one's exact description. This is
called "customizing" and there is a "proven" "market" for that.

 -David Gary- <

Charge all you want big man, only true idiots or someone lacking knowledge
of the 'market' as you call it would be stupid enough to pay you for your
precious time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------

Jason Nichols

Commissioner

SportSim Football League

http://members.aol.com/jn141414/ssfl.html

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Even though I like cars, (i don't have N2) It would not make sense to get
this for $80.00 for 5 measly cars which you can find with similar quality
free!!  I remember downloading a whole set of N1 cars, plus downloading
others.  All I can say is that these people who work their butts off
creating cars for long periods and sending them free,  at their cost, are
doing this for seeing others enjoy the game.  Your extremely high pricing
is very unusual, for the people who would normally get your cars free on
the net or buy for a few bucks would treat $80 as a slap in the face.  My
only hope is that you start posting your cars on the net for free, to
someone else's website.  You will go out of buisness most likely with this
kind of practice.
     By the way, remember Alan Kulwicki.

Christopher
http://members.aol.com/ROSCS
----------------------------------------------------
Dale Earnhardt: "Hey Ron...It's Earnhardt...your wife called...said sumpn' 'bout an anneversary..."

Ron Hornaday "Aww..."(slamms on brakes)

it's a free market. If Mr. Gary wants to charge > > $80 for custom
designs, that is his right. However, considering that the > > going free
market value for both fictinal and non-fictional cars is $0, > > I suspect
that he is pricing himself out of the market, to put it > > mildly. If you
are offended by his pricing, you have a very simple way > > of expressing
your dislpeasure- don't buy from him. If you have a > > secific car
design, sponsor, etc. in mind, there is a good chance it's > > already
been posted somewhere, for free, if you look hard enough. > > > > -- > >
Ed > > >  > Mr. Benson, >  > Please tell me what you base your statement
on when you say "The market > value for "fictional" > and "non-fictional"
cars is "zero". If not, I take it that your > statement is hypothetical
and > thus means you have "stated" with no true foundation of fact.
Stating > that the "market value" > is zero leads one to believe their IS
a market and that there is a > certain "value" for this > market. Where is
the information on the "value" on this market and "who" > sets the value?
In > other words, there couldnt possibly be a "market" if it where based
on a > value of "zero". I > suppose this would question your intellegence
of "market" principals. >  > The bottom line is: "painting" or "designing"
the pcx files for these > cars is time consuming > and takes not only
"know-how", but a certain degree of "design" > expertise. I base the price
what some-one "personally" > asked for. I consider it "art" and "design"
to a degree and therefore > would charge for "those" > services rendered
from my past experience in art and design. >  > The fact of the matter is
I HAVE been payed in the past for "these" > services. It is not my
livelyhood > of course, but it therefore concludes that there IS a
"market" for it. >  > I stated that these designs take me anywhere form 6
to 15 hours to > "collect", "design", and "create". > Now basing this on a
general time=price. 10 hours for $70(US) is $7 an > hour and, IMO, a
pretty > reasonable amount when it comes to the quality I feel I give from
my > experience. If one is "offended" > by this it just goes to show they
have no "clue" what the "value" of the > dollar in this day and era. >  >
I can almost guarantee that noone will find a "design" that will match >
there "precise" expectations > for certain "logos" and "sponsors". If they
have an idea the only way to > get that "idea" into "reality" > or in this
case "virtual" reality is to cater to one's exact > description. This is
called "customizing" > and there is a "proven" "market" for that. >  >
-David Gary-

So just to get it straight, you are not going to charge us for all of the
time you have TROWN AWAY trying to defend your position.  I mean after all
you should get at least $50 for each letter you write to us on R.A.S
right? <

I think he OWES US each $50 for our wasted time reading about his
"marketplace".......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jason Nichols

Commissioner

SportSim Football League

http://members.aol.com/jn141414/ssfl.html

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=8>]

-DG-

Please drop this thread...

--

David Gary is such a greedy guy!!! More than 100, if not 1000 people make
free cars with better or similar quality.  And MORE than 3 people got
them.  I think this is a ripoff by a "simulator fan".
Christopher
http://members.aol.com/ROSCS
----------------------------------------------------
Dale Earnhardt: "Hey Ron...It's Earnhardt...your wife called...said sumpn' 'bout an anneversary..."

Ron Hornaday "Aww..."(slamms on brakes)