rec.autos.simulators

by **gord** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:38:20

> I raced several tracks with it online last night. With everything
> turned off in expert mode I found that on the short tracks there
> wasn't a huge difference with the setups I used. On the longer
> tracks there is a major difference. For starters you are going to
> probably have to move weight at least a 100 pounds ahead to the front
> of the car plus have to play with your camber and caster.
> The trickiest part is now on the straights, where the car seems
> to wallow around if you aren't careful. Without any steering assist
> you are driving the car all the way around the track and it will
> require 100% concentration all the time. I'm not sure this is going
> to be a lot of fun in heavy traffic but perhaps with time to work on setups
> it can be smoothed out.
> As usual there was one super fast individual who didn't seem
> to be affected at all and hadn't appeared to have lost any speed at all.
> But I know he has had the patch being a beta tester which I'm sure he has
> used to advantage.
> Quicky tried a couple of the fast setups and I wasn't impressed at all.
> If they are the final deal........

> Pete

Don, is that you? ;-)

by **Pete** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:37:27

I used to beta test Papyrus products so I have some idea of how
they do things. I have no doubt that they will make some final changes
to things in fact some one has already contacted me suggesting one
of the changes.
I am very pleased with what the physics are showing. The only problem
I have already seen some big numbers with the "new setups" by beta testers
and it looks like there are ways to exploit things. They are going almost
as
fast as before.

Pete

by **Pete** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:38:14

Sorry, but no.

Pete

by **Jeff Voge** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:03:10

Seems fine to me wit hthe steering. I just adjusted my linearity and my tsw2
feels great. I love it

> I just tried some of the road courses and all I can say is
> steering by armstong. :-)
> I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember
> manual steering but thats what it feels like.
> You can't run a low steering lock because the car will wallow
> all over the track but as soon as you put the steering lock up
> trying to make sharp corners becomes hard work and makes
> my TSW uselss because I have the large sport wheel on it.
> Moving to a smaller wheel on the MS wheel makes it tolerable
> but it doesn't feel very natural. It now feels like you are driving
> a tank around.
> I suppose there will be tweaks and workarounds to be discovered
> but I'm not sure a lot of people will be happy with the steering
> situation. Especially with steering assist is disabled.
> Physics wise things look excellent and there are major changes
> in the way the tires react and behave. Tire temperatures appear to
> be much more equalized across the face of the tire and the front to
> rear balance is much closer. The tire temperatures also appear to
> be much lower but if you do start getting them hot they go away very
> quickly. The first few laps on a road coarse require you to tip toe
> around until the temperatures get up and also for your braking to be
> completely effective.
> There appears to be about 2% change in roll-couple from the
> unpatched version. And camber and caster are now critcal in the
> setup.

> Pete

> > I raced several tracks with it online last night. With everything
> > turned off in expert mode I found that on the short tracks there
> > wasn't a huge difference with the setups I used. On the longer
> > tracks there is a major difference. For starters you are going to
> > probably have to move weight at least a 100 pounds ahead to the front
> > of the car plus have to play with your camber and caster.
> > The trickiest part is now on the straights, where the car seems
> > to wallow around if you aren't careful. Without any steering assist
> > you are driving the car all the way around the track and it will
> > require 100% concentration all the time. I'm not sure this is going
> > to be a lot of fun in heavy traffic but perhaps with time to work on
> setups
> > it can be smoothed out.
> > As usual there was one super fast individual who didn't seem
> > to be affected at all and hadn't appeared to have lost any speed at all.
> > But I know he has had the patch being a beta tester which I'm sure he
has
> > used to advantage.
> > Quicky tried a couple of the fast setups and I wasn't impressed at
> all.
> > If they are the final deal........

> > Pete

by **Pete** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:55:39

I checked the date on the file and it was July 18/2003.
It can't be real old. :-)

Pete

by **Pete** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:01:13

What road courses did you try? I will do more experimenting
but in order to get the wobble out I've had to turn the steering lock
way up. I'm used to running with 100% linearity that may need to
be changed.

Pete

by **Don Burnett** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:22:21

I can't explain it, but since the new physics model introduced with N4 I am
just nowhere near as competitive as I used to be. I have tried everything,
have 3 different wheels - Original Momo FF, MSFF, and TSW2, have tried with
some aids on recently just to see if I could get any faster, and I
constantly remain a good .5 second or more slower than the front runners.
But, the league I am in has some of the fastest out there ( fixed setup
racing), so it may be I am not as slow as I think, but it sure is
frustrating.
I hope the patch helps me for fixed setup racing, I really would like to
participate more but any more I feel like I just get in folks way.

Don

> I used to beta test Papyrus products so I have some idea of how
> they do things. I have no doubt that they will make some final changes
> to things in fact some one has already contacted me suggesting one
> of the changes.
> I am very pleased with what the physics are showing. The only
> problem I have already seen some big numbers with the "new setups" by
> beta testers and it looks like there are ways to exploit things.
> They are going almost as
> fast as before.

> Pete

>> Pete,

>> Frankly I am happy to read about what you are saying, but be careful
>> in judging what you have in your hands. We(at least I) don't know
>> how old this is and what has been changed. I am starting to see a
>> bunch of threads around saying what is wrong with it. This was
>> never meant to be out and who knows what's been fixed. I am not
>> trying to ride you, I am just saying, we don't know.
>> Chad

by **Pete** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:16:24

Don, it takes as much tweaking of your hardware to be competitve
some times even with the fixed setup. Some combinations work great with
nothing done to them, put them with a killer driver and they fly.
Some hardware can be tweaked to work really well for those of us a
notch slower. All I can say is you have to try playing with linearity,
steering lock etc.
I just finished a race with high ranked Dega drivers with the patch
all aids turned off. Let me tell you they looked like rookies out there.
Almost no one could hold a line. If not for the skills of those in the race
there would have been numerous wrecks. Everyone was trying to take
it easy but without any steering assistance all the cars wobbled.
I have tried a half dozen tracks now with the fast setup and I don't
like it at all. It is very loose. Almost everyone I have seen try a fixed
ends up spinning if they start to push it at all. Granted the setups may
not be finalized for the official release but fixed racing at some tracks
with all aids off may be rather scary.

Pete

by **Eldre** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:20:37

>I can't explain it, but since the new physics model introduced with N4 I am
>just nowhere near as competitive as I used to be. I have tried everything,
>have 3 different wheels - Original Momo FF, MSFF, and TSW2, have tried with
>some aids on recently just to see if I could get any faster, and I
>constantly remain a good .5 second or more slower than the front runners.

You're a HALF second off? I think I was a FULL second off the pace at Louden.
That's a track with only a 30 second laptime. Don't worry about it - get in
there! :-)

Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Joachim Trens** » Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:01:25

For me it's been entirely the opposite. I'd never driven much N2 or N3, and
wasn't really fast either on the ovals, but when N4 was released, I became
aware that I'd never really understood what the car was doing on these
ovals, and that N4 gave me all the information and feedback. And all of a
sudden I understood what the car was doing and became competitive on the
ovals.

Achim

by **Jeff Voge** » Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:00:41

Yea I usually run around 50 with my tsw2 13" GT Wheel on it.

> What road courses did you try? I will do more experimenting
> but in order to get the wobble out I've had to turn the steering lock
> way up. I'm used to running with 100% linearity that may need to
> be changed.

> Pete

> > Seems fine to me wit hthe steering. I just adjusted my linearity and my
> tsw2
> > feels great. I love it

by **Pete** » Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:11:58

After much experimenting and a change of thinking on how to make
the chassis respond, I have figured out how to get rid of the wobble.
I'm not sure these changes are realistic and by fixing one hole they
may have opened up others but the car is definitely a handfull.

Pete

by **gord** » Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:02:16

> Sorry, but no.

> Pete

> > "
> > Don, is that you? ;-)

I am a long time RAS lurker and even though you deny it, your posts have an eerie resemblance to the ones DW makes here regularly.
Like you, he is a former beta tester. He also publicly claims to run a TSW wheel which gives him trouble in N2003.
Always making reference to deficiencies in Papy's physics and new patches.
Always noting that there may be holes in the program which can be exploited.
Never really giving any genuine praise to Papyrus for their product.
While testing this patch, did you remember to keep the ground wire hooked up?...... 8^)p

by **Goy Larse** » Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:31:46

Pete's spelling is better, but that's because he and Don got separated
at birth and Pete got a better education, they're identical twins you
see

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Andre Warring** » Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:35:06

Good news indeed!!

Andre

PS Which sim are you actually talking about?