rec.autos.simulators

RASF1 Aids

Haqsa

RASF1 Aids

by Haqsa » Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:40:07

Well guys I am very disenchanted now.  I just spent roughly 30 laps at
Malaysia playing around with stability control and in that time took 2 full
seconds off of my PB.  Over 100 laps of practice prior to the race and the
best I could do was a mid 1:38, now I can run in the 1:36's, and all it took
was full stability control, full TC, and auto shifting, all of which are
legal in RASF1.  Now granted a mid 1:36 is not an impossible time without
aids, but I suspect it's not particularly easy either.  What was
particularly bothersome is that full stability control allowed me to brake
way too late into the turns and still make them without spinning.  It
affects braking almost like ABS.  I could even continue to downshift into
mid corner and not spin.  It also allowed me to use liberal amounts of curb
and grass without loss of speed or control - as long as I didn't ground the
chassis I was in full control.  If I really screwed up badly I would still
spin, but the margin for error it gives you is totally unrealistic.  These
tools are a great way to learn the line perhaps, but I am starting to
question whether we should allow them in the race.  I'm tempted to say that
TC, clutch help, and autoshift should be the only allowed aids, but then
again maybe if everybody took advantage of all the aids we would have a
cleaner race with more finishers.  It's a tough call - realism or fun?
Opinions?
Spudste

RASF1 Aids

by Spudste » Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:36:52

Agree, I vote to get rid of stability control. The original argument for it
was that it would not make people any faster... this is not the case.
Spud.


elrik

RASF1 Aids

by elrik » Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:55:55


So use it yourself and go faster.  ;o)

Elrikk

Eldre

RASF1 Aids

by Eldre » Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:38:29



>Agree, I vote to get rid of stability control. The original argument for it
>was that it would not make people any faster... this is not the case.

No, the original argument was that it would keep people from crashing every 3
turns...

Eldred
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Eldre

RASF1 Aids

by Eldre » Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:38:28


writes:

I just tried to run some laps without stability control.  I had previously run
low SC and low TC, and clutch.  Yesterday in the race(or in qual) I ran a 1:51.
 Tonight, I couldn't put two laps together without spinning, and  could only
get to a 1:54.  And I was reminded why I started using SC in the first place -
Silverstone.  I couldn't complete a lap without spinning in the sharp
lefthander near the end of the lap.  At Malaysia, I have the same problem with
T2.  Out of those 10 laps I ran, I probably spun there 7 or 8 times(more
counting outlaps).
So, it appears I'm the only one who uses(and needs) SC.  If you guys want to
run races without it, then fine.  But I won't race - I'm just not good
enough... :-(

Eldred
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Larry Lindstro

RASF1 Aids

by Larry Lindstro » Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:51:12


> Well guys I am very disenchanted now.  I just spent roughly 30 laps at
> Malaysia playing around with stability control and in that time took 2 full
> seconds off of my PB.  Over 100 laps of practice prior to the race and the
> best I could do was a mid 1:38, now I can run in the 1:36's, and all it took
> was full stability control, full TC, and auto shifting, all of which are
> legal in RASF1.  

Hi Haqsqu:

   I'm sorry.  You guys almost got through the season
without any problems.  Who's idea was it to let me
into RASF1?  

   Or choice C, exactly what our gracious host wants.  

   Well, not so mutch what he wants.  More like what
we can convince him he wants.  

   If it isn't enforceable, I believe it should be
legal.  

   I'm not using it.  I'd just like to know who else
isn't.  

   It will be class racing.  

                                                Larry

Larry Lindstro

RASF1 Aids

by Larry Lindstro » Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:40:25



> writes:

> >Well guys I am very disenchanted now.  I just spent roughly 30 laps at
> >Malaysia playing around with stability control and in that time took 2 full
> >seconds off of my PB.  Over 100 laps of practice prior to the race and the
> >best I could do was a mid 1:38, now I can run in the 1:36's, and all it took
> >was full stability control, full TC, and auto shifting, all of which are
> >legal in RASF1.  Now granted a mid 1:36 is not an impossible time without
> >aids, but I suspect it's not particularly easy either.  What was
> >particularly bothersome is that full stability control allowed me to brake
> >way too late into the turns and still make them without spinning.  It
> >affects braking almost like ABS.  I could even continue to downshift into
> >mid corner and not spin.  It also allowed me to use liberal amounts of curb
> >and grass without loss of speed or control - as long as I didn't ground the
> >chassis I was in full control.  If I really screwed up badly I would still
> >spin, but the margin for error it gives you is totally unrealistic.  These
> >tools are a great way to learn the line perhaps, but I am starting to
> >question whether we should allow them in the race.  I'm tempted to say that
> >TC, clutch help, and autoshift should be the only allowed aids, but then
> >again maybe if everybody took advantage of all the aids we would have a
> >cleaner race with more finishers.  It's a tough call - realism or fun?
> >Opinions?

> I just tried to run some laps without stability control.  I had previously run
> low SC and low TC, and clutch.  Yesterday in the race(or in qual) I ran a 1:51.
>  Tonight, I couldn't put two laps together without spinning, and  could only
> get to a 1:54.  And I was reminded why I started using SC in the first place -
> Silverstone.  I couldn't complete a lap without spinning in the sharp
> lefthander near the end of the lap.  At Malaysia, I have the same problem with
> T2.  Out of those 10 laps I ran, I probably spun there 7 or 8 times(more
> counting outlaps).
> So, it appears I'm the only one who uses(and needs) SC.  If you guys want to
> run races without it, then fine.  But I won't race - I'm just not good
> enough... :-(

> Eldred

Hi Eldred:

   I have no problem with that.  You should use
what you want.  

   How did that 2:54 feel?  

   In 10 laps?  I've done all my driving with
minimal assists.  In the week before last Sunday's
race I've probably done 30 laps at Malaysia.  

   Once I got a 1:49 and once I got a 1:47.  I saw
it, but my "official" record reports a 1:49 as my
best.  

   I qualified at 1:52 or 1:53, and you qualified
2 or 3 seconds behind me.  After the race I hadn't
reduced my PB.  

   After 10 laps you cut a 2:54!  No experience with
stability assistance turned off and in 10 laps you
were within a second or two of my qualifying time.  
That's faster than your qualifying time in the race.  

   Look, I won't lie to you.  That time sucks.  But
it's good enough to race with me.  

   Consistency, that's everyone's challenge on every
lap of every race.  Will you have a chance to practice
this week?  Because that's what you need to become
consistent.  

   My advice is to go to internet multiplayer, host
a race at Indy, or your favorite track, with a name
that has the word "Beginner" in it and stability
assistance disallowed.  Start cutting some laps.  It
took me more than 10 laps to learn how to drive this
beast at the low level of performance I have right
now.  

   Why the Internet?  Because it's cool to have other
real drivers.  They will want to race, so practice
until someone comes in and cuts times like your's, and
then have a little race.  I recommend sprints, damage
off because we're looking to log some laps.  

   Here is a tip.  Turn 1 at Malaysia, it's nice to
gently turn into the apex.  Don't even think about
that with no stability assistance.  It's a white
knuckle, max brake, wheels dead forward slide toward
the left side of the right turn, and when your are
slow enough release the bakes and then turn into
the apex.  Accelerating out of turns is almost as
demanding.  You might be able to very gently roll
the throttle on as you are straightening out your
wheel.  That's how I do it, perhaps some good driver
can tell us both how to do it fast  Learn to follow
the line, as laid out on the road surface.  

   It's hard, it unforgiving, and it's a lot of
fun.  It takes more than 10 laps to learn.  And
you've already beaten your qualifying time at
Malaysia.  

                                              Larry

Neil Charlto

RASF1 Aids

by Neil Charlto » Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:47:19


[snip]
  It's a tough call - realism or fun?

I'm happy to let people race as they like as long as it's clean. If I ever
put a good run together and see myself getting beaten by someone with aids
maybe I'll reconsider ;) Until then, keeping them (and me) on track is the
main thing I think in order to have some fun.

Regards

Eldre

RASF1 Aids

by Eldre » Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:10:40



>   After 10 laps you cut a 2:54!  No experience with
>stability assistance turned off and in 10 laps you
>were within a second or two of my qualifying time.  
>That's faster than your qualifying time in the race.  

>   Look, I won't lie to you.  That time sucks.  But
>it's good enough to race with me.  

Hey, any time a driver is 20+ seconds off the front row, that's not good. :-)

No, I don't have a lot of time to practice.  I work full-time, and I'm back in
school.  I actually should be studying right NOW...  I've dropped out of most
of the leagues I was in.
We'll see what happens at Indy...

Eldred
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Larry Lindstro

RASF1 Aids

by Larry Lindstro » Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:17:52




> >   After 10 laps you cut a 2:54!  No experience with
> >stability assistance turned off and in 10 laps you
> >were within a second or two of my qualifying time.
> >That's faster than your qualifying time in the race.

> >   Look, I won't lie to you.  That time sucks.  But
> >it's good enough to race with me.

> Hey, any time a driver is 20+ seconds off the front row, that's not good. :-)

> >   Consistency, that's everyone's challenge on every
> >lap of every race.  Will you have a chance to practice
> >this week?  Because that's what you need to become
> >consistent.

> No, I don't have a lot of time to practice.  I work full-time, and I'm back in
> school.  I actually should be studying right NOW...  I've dropped out of most
> of the leagues I was in.
> We'll see what happens at Indy...

Hi Eldred:

   Forget I said anything.  

   Your GPL experience is dawning on me.  I've never
finished a lap in GPL.  In my defense the only track
I've driven more than one lap on is Nurburgring, and
the car I've driven on all but 2 of those laps was a
Lotus 49, and a commitment of two laps a year doesn't
seem to be enough to master this great sim.  But I
keep going back every now and then.  

   When driving the Lotus, I keep asking "Why did the
car do that?".  If you can keep one of these on the
road, you need no advice from me on any sim racing
issue.  

   See you Sunday.  If I can get up for the 8:00 AM
start.  

                                               Larry

Dave Henri

RASF1 Aids

by Dave Henri » Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:34:53




>> >   Consistency, that's everyone's challenge on every
>> >lap of every race.  Will you have a chance to practice
>> >this week?  Because that's what you need to become
>> >consistent.

   I have usually run with just low TC and clutch and no other help.  ANd
that meant I would spin more often than complete a clean lap.  At Malaysia
in an '02 Ferrari I hit the low 1:40's only a couple of times in my
practice sessions.  During the race practice with a '01 Renault I was even
slower at around 1:46.  
  So I went back tonight and put on full TC and Full stability and ran 4
more laps at Malaysia.  Many folks have said their times plummeted...well I
didn't break my own lap pb, but I did put 4 laps all within the same
second.  THAT is something I never do.  So for a spud like me, the
Stability aid doesn't make me faster, it just keeps me from being so wildly
inconsistant.  While any one lap with those aids on wasn't my fastest,
taken as a group they were way better than any 4 laps I had during a week's
practice at Sepang.

btw..I'm using my Malay setup at Indy and topping out at 193mph...what are
YOUR top speeds???

Larry Lindstro

RASF1 Aids

by Larry Lindstro » Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:38:27





> >> >   Consistency, that's everyone's challenge on every
> >> >lap of every race.  Will you have a chance to practice
> >> >this week?  Because that's what you need to become
> >> >consistent.

>    I have usually run with just low TC and clutch and no other help.  ANd
> that meant I would spin more often than complete a clean lap.  At Malaysia
> in an '02 Ferrari I hit the low 1:40's only a couple of times in my
> practice sessions.  During the race practice with a '01 Renault I was even
> slower at around 1:46.

   What is the impact of selecting a second tier car?  

   I never learned Malaysia.  I feel I could have
knocked a couple of seconds off my best of 1:47.  That
left sweeper where Eldred had his problem is an example
of a section that I started taking in 3rd and finished
taking in 5th for my better laps.  I don't know what my
limits on that curve might be.  But in the race, I got
cautious.  If I'd had Eldred in the race I'd probably
have leaned into that one a little more.  

   For me, it would take a while to understand and
exploit a change of handling.  Is it like a different
physics model?  Your one second consistency is
interesting.  With that foundation, I'm thinking
that faster times are only a few laps away.  

   I'm sorry you got booted so early.  

   Are you asking me or Eldred?  

   I drove Indy when I first got F1C, but I haven't
been on it for several weeks, and might not see it
until Friday or Saturday.  So I can't tell you.  
I'll probably start with the "TN" indy setup and
if that's too twitchy I'll add wing, then adjust
gears to get good RPMs on the straights.  Then I'll
be able to tell you.  

   I've been too busy starting arguments in RASF1,
and generally being a pain in the ass, to thank you
for guiding me through F1RST to RASF1's chat room.  
I appreciate your help.  

                                              Larry

Dave Henri

RASF1 Aids

by Dave Henri » Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:26:13



  Everyone and/or anyone...

Eldre

RASF1 Aids

by Eldre » Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:56:13

I can do that in GPL.  I can run 30+ laps at some tracks with laptimes within a
second of each other.  Those are the tracks I know well.  I get into trouble
when I try something different to go faster.  I don't know how to go faster
without crashing...

Eldred
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Eldre

RASF1 Aids

by Eldre » Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:56:47

I don't know...  I'd have to check.
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