rec.autos.simulators

  I mean the game doesn't have many options or gameplay modes.

  And does N2002 change this, or will 2003 have it? To me, this
wouldn't be terribly hard to do, yet it's not in the game.  Why not?

  Why not just have an option to start out driving, though, like
NASCAR HEAT?

  I did, this one is new.  The Philips works for every other game out
there, alot better than the Creative Labs card I had.

  I guess I want a sequel to NASCAR HEAT, then.  That's what I'm
looking for.  It's fun gameplay, but it's looking old on this new
hardware.

  No, I don't mind realism when it doesn't get in the way of having
fun.  But pace laps and yellow flags are no fun.  Also no fun is
actually having to drive them without the AI taking over.  OK, maybe I
am not the best sim driver and I can't hold my place in a pace lap and
get black flagged.  Does this mean I should be condemned to not
playing driving games?

  Y'all need to get up off your high horses. "Sim" vs. "Game" is
irrelevent.  What matter is, do  you enjoy it?  'Cause until you get
in a real car and drive a couple hundred laps, all you are doing is
playing a game- albeit a game that can resemble the real thing in alot
of ways.  'Nuff said.

  I'm not holding a gun to your head and demanding you play on arcade
mode, u know.

 Hey, I was just asking if they were going to make N2003 any different
from past games, what new features will it have besides the graphics.
I hardly call that whining.

  You guys are too thin skinned.  I never sayed I didn't like playing
"sims" or Papyrus games, just that I draw the line at what's fun
somewhere.  FWIW, I also bought NASCAR Legends a few months ago (also
bargain bin) and I've played that alot too- it didn't rub me the wrong
way like N4 did.

  Just different design philosophies is all.  As you've come to realize, you
stepped into a hornet's nest here :)  Heat was a fine game, if you're into
offline racing.  Much better than anything Papy has put out AI, damage
model, track representation, and car feel-wise imo.
  But most here don't do much offline racing, so, you're wearing the number
666 to them :)

  And the next time someone slams you for being an arcade racer, just ask
them how the N2k damage, drafting, and online collision code models are
doing <g>

  John

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

  Anyways, what difference does it make if you can toggle it on or off
to suit your preferences?  I'm not asking you to play with no
yellow/black flags, no full starts, or with tire wear.  Is it a
control issue with you fanboys?

  I spent some more time with the NASCAR Thunder demo, and read a few
more reviews, and I decided to pass on it.  I noticed that the LOD
popup was even worse in NASCAR Thunder, and the shadows look nice but
disappear too fast.  I read a few more reviews, and it turns out
there's no more gameplay modes than NASCAR 4.  Maybe somebody will
make a better NASCAR game one of these days that isn't just a console
game.  I read that EA has an exclusive license to do NASCAR, which is
too bad- maybe they will do better next year 'cause it sucks this
year.  Or maybe Papyrus will turn out a good game for us casual
players and not just the fanboys with NASCAR 2003.

  Man, PC *** is really sucking now days if all the good games are
on the consoles- all of the newer NASCAR HEAT games are console only.
I have an old PS2 and would have bought a racing wheel a long while
back if it weren't for the sucky console graphics and ridiculous game
prices.  It's just not  fair...

<--- arcade   o   --------> realism

Going towards arcade means arcade.

Ahhhh getting on your nerves?  Don't *** with us.  We'll slap you into
oblivion.

There are NO good racing games on the console.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

So if one little feature of NR2003 is put in place to make things a little
easier to drive, like driving aids or alternate views, then it is an arcade
game? 'Relaxed Realism' is a good way of describing a game like Thunder.
It's not a 'timer counting down, get to the next checkpoint or insert
another coin' game, but it won't have a WC team knocking on the door for
help designing their car.

I can count on the fingers of one human hand the number of PC games I really
want to play, and still open a bottle of Coke with the ones left over. I
couldn't count the number of games I want to play on a console on the teeth
of a T-Rex. It is looking more and more like the PC is only for
flight/racing sims, while the consoles are perfect for everything else.

By the way, don't you like Gran Turismo 3, Colin McRae Rally 3, F355
Challenge, Auto Modellista, Formula One 2002, Project Gotham, F1 2002? Or
even Mario Kart? You must like Mario Kart. They are all 'racing games', they
are all on a 'console', and they are all good. They might not all be
simulators, but you didn't say that.

To me, it's the racing that counts.  I could care less if Dale Jarrett and a
Ford is in the field I'm racing.

-Larry