rec.autos.simulators

Papyrus Recruitment

asgeir nes?e

Papyrus Recruitment

by asgeir nes?e » Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:00:00


> Those whose first language is English should be taught to use it correctly.
> Just as those whose first language is Spanish, Russian, Mandarin, Albanian
> or even Norwegian should be taught to use their native language correctly.

I do agree, but the spoken language is a living thing. It changes over time.
And the written language change according to it, after some time (and this time
is a buffer towards silly changes). On should think that the bigger distance
there is between the spoken and written language , the more spelling errors
there will be, but this isn't the case. I know french a bit, both the spoken
and the written, and I must say that there exists an enormous distance, and
still all french people know how to spell! The reason must be the educational
system maintaining focus on written language, perhaps thinking that some of the
french identity lies within the language!

English on the other hand, has no identity embedded at all! Everybody on the
planet writes english, ranging from the complete illiterates to the talented
writers. And the english language has its own spelling ways. However, one of
the primary objectives of using english (and extremely so on the internet), is
the communicative side of it, getting through with your message. In other
words, focus on content, not on form. This creates a entirely different
approach towards language. People use english as a tool, not as something
valuable in itself.

I try to the best of my abilities to write as correctly as I can, as I am
taught to do this, and because I think that language is more than just
communicating one statment from on person to another... But, you have to
realize as well that it can require a not subordinate amount of effort for the
non-native english writers to maintain correct language and spelling. Luckily,
I think I have sufficient knowledge of english (thanks to the norwegian
educational system) to express myself without putting in a great effort.

I have noticed the same phenomenon here in Norway, younger people of higher
education cannot write correctly, neither spelling nor grammar, and there is a
growing worry here in Norway, people just can't speak or write our language
properly.

But I still think you have a real chore when you're trying to fight for correct
spelling on the internet, there are so many here with limited knowledge of the
english language. But it might help if those whose first language is english
would stop writing "your" instead of "you're" simply because they don't bother
to find that ' on the keyboard...

Some people take lightly on spelling and grammar, others don't.

And, at times, I would appreciate very much feedback on faults, particularly on
grammar, from the native english speakers, I really would. But most people on
the internet seem reluctant to do this.

---Asgeir---

asgeir nes?e

Papyrus Recruitment

by asgeir nes?e » Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:00:00

You know, there was a time when education meant or was even synonymous to
class, and that was what I was referring to. But that was in the last century
and earlier. More of a joke on your age than anything else, btw, but you
understood that, of course!

I hope that "class" has more to do with morale and ethics than correct
spelling. these days :-) If there exists such a thing as "class" anymore...

---Asgeir---


> Correct spelling has never been "a sign of class" here Asgeir.
> A sign of a proper education....sure.  But in Australia, never a sign of
> "class".
> --
> Best regards,
> Bruce.

Byron Forbe

Papyrus Recruitment

by Byron Forbe » Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:00:00

   LOL. A very suspect analogy but LOL anyway :)

> No, because it should become a habit, irrespective of what medium one is
> using.

> I'm sure that you would wash your hands after defecating irrespective of
> whether you did so in a public toilet or in your own bathroom.

> --
> Best regards,
> Bruce.
> ======
> The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff!
> http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet
> ===============================================


> >snip

> >> However, as an employer, I can assure you of one thing:-  any application
> >> that I receive in which the spelling is pathetically incorrect is
> responded
> >> to with a "thanks but no thanks."  I can also state without fear of
> >> contradiction that this stance is being taken by more and more employers
> >> these days who are sick and tired of our education systems turning out
> >> illiterates.

> >To value correct spelling and grammar in a Usenet post as much as in
> >a job application is slightly silly, isn't it?

> >l8er
> >ronny

> >--
> >Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> >to take effect. Reboot now?
> >          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
> >   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
> >        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
> >       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Bruce Kennewel

Papyrus Recruitment

by Bruce Kennewel » Sun, 20 Jun 1999 04:00:00

I have never attempted to correct anybody on the Internet when I have known
or suspected that their first language is anything other than English and
nor would I be so presumptuous to do so.

I also agree, to a certain extent, with your points regarding language being
an evolving thing.  I say, "to a point".  New words are being added to
language on a regular basis, which is a natural and wonderful thing.
However, I do not subscribe to the belief that those words that have been
around for centuries should be treated with contempt when it comes to the
way in which they are spelt.  After all, those words have been handed down
to us from generation to generation for possibly hundreds, if not thousands,
of years.

That is what teaching others is all about....the passing on of knowledge, of
customs, of wisdom, amongst other things.  If we fail to teach our children
to respect the structure of the words that go to make up the written form of
their language, how can we ever expect future generations to effectively
study our history?
--
Best regards,
Bruce.
======
The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff!
http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet
===============================================



>> Those whose first language is English should be taught to use it
correctly.
>> Just as those whose first language is Spanish, Russian, Mandarin,
Albanian
>> or even Norwegian should be taught to use their native language
correctly.

>I do agree, but the spoken language is a living thing. It changes over
time.
>And the written language change according to it, after some time (and this
time
>is a buffer towards silly changes). On should think that the bigger
distance
>there is between the spoken and written language , the more spelling errors
>there will be, but this isn't the case. I know french a bit, both the
spoken
>and the written, and I must say that there exists an enormous distance, and
>still all french people know how to spell! The reason must be the
educational
>system maintaining focus on written language, perhaps thinking that some of
the
>french identity lies within the language!

>English on the other hand, has no identity embedded at all! Everybody on
the
>planet writes english, ranging from the complete illiterates to the
talented
>writers. And the english language has its own spelling ways. However, one
of
>the primary objectives of using english (and extremely so on the internet),
is
>the communicative side of it, getting through with your message. In other
>words, focus on content, not on form. This creates a entirely different
>approach towards language. People use english as a tool, not as something
>valuable in itself.

>> I am not advocating that English should become a universal language and
nor
>> am I suggesting that those whose mother tongue is other than English
should
>> be expected to master its bastardised spelling and grammar.

>I try to the best of my abilities to write as correctly as I can, as I am
>taught to do this, and because I think that language is more than just
>communicating one statment from on person to another... But, you have to
>realize as well that it can require a not subordinate amount of effort for
the
>non-native english writers to maintain correct language and spelling.
Luckily,
>I think I have sufficient knowledge of english (thanks to the norwegian
>educational system) to express myself without putting in a great effort.

>> However, as an employer, I can assure you of one thing:-  any application
>> that I receive in which the spelling is pathetically incorrect is
responded
>> to with a "thanks but no thanks."  I can also state without fear of
>> contradiction that this stance is being taken by more and more employers
>> these days who are sick and tired of our education systems turning out
>> illiterates.

>I have noticed the same phenomenon here in Norway, younger people of higher
>education cannot write correctly, neither spelling nor grammar, and there
is a
>growing worry here in Norway, people just can't speak or write our language
>properly.

>But I still think you have a real chore when you're trying to fight for
correct
>spelling on the internet, there are so many here with limited knowledge of
the
>english language. But it might help if those whose first language is
english
>would stop writing "your" instead of "you're" simply because they don't
bother
>to find that ' on the keyboard...

>Some people take lightly on spelling and grammar, others don't.

>And, at times, I would appreciate very much feedback on faults,
particularly on
>grammar, from the native english speakers, I really would. But most people
on
>the internet seem reluctant to do this.

>---Asgeir---

Bruce Kennewel

Papyrus Recruitment

by Bruce Kennewel » Sun, 20 Jun 1999 04:00:00

You said it in so few words, DK!

Why should I subscribe to your casual approach to the correct (or otherwise)
spelling of written words that we also speak every day?  You are simply
wrapping laziness in a cloak of indifference and this claim that e-mail is a
modern version of ***discourse and should not, therefore, be subject to
the rules that govern the written word is one of the most pathetic excuses I
have come across.

To use your line of distorted thinking, if somebody, for example,  applies
for a job position on-line, via the medium of e-mail, then the spelling and
grammar of that application can be of a lower level of accuracy and
correctness than an application that is submitted in conventional fashion
via the medium of writing on paper.  Because, according to your approach,
the applicant is actually speaking to the other party, not really writing to
them.  Is that correct?

Interesting premise. Good luck with the rest of your college education.

--
Best regards,
Bruce.
======
The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff!
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
===============================================


>Nonsense, IMO.

Kirk Lan

Papyrus Recruitment

by Kirk Lan » Sun, 20 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Sorry to yell, but...

IT'S USENET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!  NOT MY 7-PAGE TERM PAPER ON
CHARLES***ENS AND HOW HIS LIFE INFLUENCED HIS WRITING!!!!!!!!!!! (ughhhh
bad memories)

And why is it always my post in this thread that seems to grab your
attention????  As someone who gets A's and B's in Honors Freshman English
(more or less Junior-level), I am hardly an illiterate!

*deep breath*

That felt good.  Hopefully I won't have to do any more defending of my 'poor
grammar/spelling'.

--
Kirk Lane
Tempe, AZ

ICQ: 28171652
RMRL #119

Brett Resch

Papyrus Recruitment

by Brett Resch » Sun, 20 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Hi Bruce,

I would like to point out your frivolous use of the word "and"
directly preceding the word "nor" in the attached quote.  The use of
the word "and" in this case is completely unnecessary in written
english; it tends to make your writing read much like spoken english.

Furthermore, when using a conjunction to introduce a new thought in a
sentence, it is considered grammatically correct to separate said
conjunction from the preceding phrase with a comma.

I'm a bit confused as to what type of punctuation you are attempting
in your previous post.  The use of ":-" is completely foreign to me.

Also, the correct way to quote a phrase is to capitalize the first
word of the phrase quoted.  Therefore, in order to be grammatically
correct, your quote below should read:

        "Thanks, but no thanks."

Finally, you neglected to separate the two separate thoughts in the
same phrase with a comma.

While far from perfect, yours is the best written english I've seen.  

Congratulations, you're hired.

Please report to usenet at 8:00 prompt on Monday morning.  You may
begin grammatically correcting every english-speaking person's post in
the newsgroup entitled "-".  If you do not have this newsgroup, please
start with the newsgroup which is alphanumerically first in your news
reader.  When you are finished correcting the grammar in that
newsgroup, please continue on to the rest of the usenet groups in
alphanumeric order.

Please feel free to skip the newsgroups "alt.english.usage" and
"alt.usage.english", as these groups should have their own grammar
correction systems in place.

When you finish the newsgroup "zzz.3", or whatever newsgroup you have
list alphanumerically last in your news reader, please report promptly
back to rec.autos.simulators to post your English Grammar Status
Report for Usenet.  At that time you may begin again, correcting posts
in the newsgroup "-", or whatever newsgroup is listed alphanumerically
first in your news reader.

Please do not forget to refresh your newsgroups before continuing.

Thank you.

Brett

On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:47:43 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"


>I am not advocating that English should become a universal language and nor
>am I suggesting that those whose mother tongue is other than English should
>be expected to master its bastardised spelling and grammar.

<snip>
Bruce Kennewel

Papyrus Recruitment

by Bruce Kennewel » Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Certainly.
Thanks.

--
Best regards,
Bruce.
======
The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff!
http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet
===============================================


>Hi Bruce,

>Please report to usenet at 8:00 prompt on Monday morning.

Demon new

Papyrus Recruitment

by Demon new » Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Brett!

You ARE my hero!!    :O)


Ronald Stoeh

Papyrus Recruitment

by Ronald Stoeh » Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Brett Reschke schrieb:

LOL <wipping teers of my faice>

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Brett Resch

Papyrus Recruitment

by Brett Resch » Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:00:00


>I've seen it all now! You need a life Brett!
>Thom_j.
>P.S. Fyi; I did not use any quotes!

Hi Thom_j,

Congratulations on your quote-free post!  

I would beg to differ about the needing-a-life thing.  I have one
already, and I don't think I need another.

Ahem, try reading the entire thread before you work yourself into a
lather and post a response.

Or, you may try switching to decaf.

--------------------

What is it lately?  Everyone getting just a little tense about the GPL
patch?  Why doesn't everyone in RAS just turn off their computer, and
go play outside for a while!   :P

...except for Jack Rambo and everyone at Papy, of course.   ;)

Brett

J

Papyrus Recruitment

by J » Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Great stuff. Thanks Brett.

Jens



>Brett!

>You ARE my hero!!    :O)



>> Hi Bruce,

>> I would like to point out your frivolous use of the word "and"
>> directly preceding the word "nor" in the attached quote.  The use of

<snip>
---------------------------------------------

Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address
bryan72

Papyrus Recruitment

by bryan72 » Sat, 26 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Does the word ***mean anything to you?



> Hi Bruce,

> I would like to point out your frivolous use of the word "and"
> directly preceding the word "nor" in the attached quote.  The use of
> the word "and" in this case is completely unnecessary in written
> english; it tends to make your writing read much like spoken english.

> Furthermore, when using a conjunction to introduce a new thought in a
> sentence, it is considered grammatically correct to separate said
> conjunction from the preceding phrase with a comma.

> I'm a bit confused as to what type of punctuation you are attempting
> in your previous post.  The use of ":-" is completely foreign to me.

> Also, the correct way to quote a phrase is to capitalize the first
> word of the phrase quoted.  Therefore, in order to be grammatically
> correct, your quote below should read:

>    "Thanks, but no thanks."

> Finally, you neglected to separate the two separate thoughts in the
> same phrase with a comma.

> While far from perfect, yours is the best written english I've seen.  

> Congratulations, you're hired.

> Please report to usenet at 8:00 prompt on Monday morning.  You may
> begin grammatically correcting every english-speaking person's post in
> the newsgroup entitled "-".  If you do not have this newsgroup, please
> start with the newsgroup which is alphanumerically first in your news
> reader.  When you are finished correcting the grammar in that
> newsgroup, please continue on to the rest of the usenet groups in
> alphanumeric order.

> Please feel free to skip the newsgroups "alt.english.usage" and
> "alt.usage.english", as these groups should have their own grammar
> correction systems in place.

> When you finish the newsgroup "zzz.3", or whatever newsgroup you have
> list alphanumerically last in your news reader, please report promptly
> back to rec.autos.simulators to post your English Grammar Status
> Report for Usenet.  At that time you may begin again, correcting posts
> in the newsgroup "-", or whatever newsgroup is listed alphanumerically
> first in your news reader.

> Please do not forget to refresh your newsgroups before continuing.

> Thank you.

> Brett

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:47:43 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

> >I am not advocating that English should become a universal language and
nor
> >am I suggesting that those whose mother tongue is other than English
should
> >be expected to master its bastardised spelling and grammar.

> <snip>

> >However, as an employer, I can assure you of one thing:-  any
application
> >that I receive in which the spelling is pathetically incorrect is
responded
> >to with a "thanks but no thanks."

Brett Resch

Papyrus Recruitment

by Brett Resch » Sat, 26 Jun 1999 04:00:00



Bruce:  That's a nice looking red car.

Brett: I like that car, too.  Beautiful shade of red.  Oddly enough,
yesterday I got in an argument with a guy who insisted the car is
maroon.

[Thom_j strolls up]

Thom_j: MAROON?!  Are you off your rocker, man?!  That car is RED!

Brett: I know it's red.  I was just explaining to Bruce that I was in
an argument with a guy who insisted that the car is maroon.  I KNOW
it's red!  I told the guy yesterday that if he thought it was maroon,
he might as well call it purple, since he's so far off base.

[bryan729 strolls up]

bryan729: PURPLE?!  You'd better clean your glasses!  That car is RED!

[Brett slaps forehead]

[Camera pans out.  Rod Serling steps in frame to give commentary...]

<sigh>

Read the entire thread.  Please.

Bruce, by the time this thread finally dies, you'll be the "why can't
people write" guy, and I'll be the "why can't people READ" guy.

;-)

Everyone have a nice day!

Brett

Jack Ramb

Papyrus Recruitment

by Jack Ramb » Sat, 26 Jun 1999 04:00:00

LOL! Brett, you and my buddy Steve Blankenship should form some sort of
literary team! You'd be on the New York Times bestseller list in a
heartbeat!

Jack

www.RaceLive.com/GPaL


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