rec.autos.simulators

GP3 after a week...

Snak

GP3 after a week...

by Snak » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Well, I have read all this thread with a grin on my face, some say canned
and others not. My personal opinion is not. People have made comments on the
laws of physics which are the thing in question here. F1 cars are an
individual breed, they rely   (especially at present with the grooved tyre
regulatons) mainly on the downforce given by the front and rear wings. They
reckon you could drive one of these things on the ceiling because of the
speed and downforce combination. If you took the wings of these cars
cornering would be seriously difficult (obviously) even at low speeds.
If you watch TV coverage of the sport, which I have been lucky enough to see
here in the UK from being a young lad to a 30 year old man on a regular
basis, you will have seen the many accidents and unfortunate fatalaties that
have occured in the sport.
Most of these occur because the driver is on the absoloute limit, obviously
only a fraction of speed , late braking etc.. takes you beyond that point.
You find that That the cars just go ping!, and there out of control,
spinning away or just sliding sideways at some serious velocity leaving the
driver helpless and at the mercy of fate. These cars are not designed to be
powerslided it`s not efficient, it costs laptime, there designed to stick by
downforce. When downforce is gone you are usually travelling at a silly
speed ( hair on fire ) thus regaining control is not easy. I`ve seen some
good recoveries, but they usually entailed spinning 540 degrees heading off
backwards on the grass, track or wahtever with the driver being able to get
the car pointed in the right direction and get away without hitting anything
and without loosing much time ( oh! being alive aswell).
I`ve heard people give it the old " it`s no GPL " routine, and I couldn`t
agree more. It is NOT GPL,as in it is not trying to replicate hoe cars back
then handled, It is trying to replicate how cars handled in 1998. I
personally like the physics model, the best way to regain control of a lost
car is too bleed off the speed, try to get it back within the limit, I think
this is correct. Most low speed spins are caused by over acceleration at a
time when downforce is not working at it`s true potential, people surely
don`t think that upon loosing control putting your foot down and turning
into it is going to help a recovery. Taking your foot off the gas and
fighting it is what is called for, remembering that sharp movements of the
wheel will result in sharp movements of the car which will alter the cars
sensitive characteristics.
Gp3 seems to give a good idea of how things work in a modern day F1 car,
bearing in mind it`s not a easy thing to model.

Shit I didn`t intend to waffle on that long, anyway thats my humble take on
the handling.

Snake.

Gilandi

GP3 after a week...

by Gilandi » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

I aggree and I don't even have the GP3 yet.  Keep in mind the physics engine
was designed with the help of two current F1 drivers (Arrows' drivers I
believe. Can't laugh too much at that one lately).  How many of you neysayers
have driven a modern F1 car lately?  I look forward to having GP3 and trust
that De la Rosa has a better idea of how a current F1 car (and simulator)
should behave better than the rest of us.  

Joe Marque

GP3 after a week...

by Joe Marque » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

LOL

--
Joe Marques

Please remove "NO SPAM" to e-mail me.

Marko Aaltone

GP3 after a week...

by Marko Aaltone » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Whoa, then what do you think about the physics if you regain control by just
smashing to brakes to the floot. It almost always gets the car back to
control and straightens the car in an unrealistic way, just my two cents and
disappointment for the game...


Mark Jeangerar

GP3 after a week...

by Mark Jeangerar » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Camber?

--
Mark Jeangerard
www.soundchaserweb.com
New Mexico, USA


Martin D. Pa

GP3 after a week...

by Martin D. Pa » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:11:11 +1000, "David Mocnay"

<snip>

My own take, one week on and five races into a Championship
season...

Good things:

The AI - aggressive, smart and not easy to beat. And they fight
back, too...

The graphics - I'm running an AMDK6-2 450, 128MB RAM, Guillemot
TNT2 M64 32MB graphics card, 16bit PCI Soundblaster. I get around
21/23 fps at around 95% - 130% processor occupancy at 800x600.
Graphics on automatic, slider slightly up towards the 'smoother
play' end. Very pretty (make that distracting!  ^_^  ) and
eminently playable.

(I have a friend with a similar system - P3 450 rather than my
AMD - and a Creative 16MB Voodoo Banshee card who says he gets
25fps at 1024x768. It seems unlikely to me - my fps goes down to
12/13 at that resolution - but I haven't seen his system running
GP3 to say for sure. And I've no idea what his PO is - he doesn't
bother to check it as the game runs OK. Which maybe could teach
us all something...  ^_^  ^_^  ^_^  )

As for spins, canned or not - well, it is possible to recover if
you're both quick and lucky. But generally speaking once a modern
F1 car loses grip it does so spectacularly and you can forget
recovering until it slows almost to a stop... (Preferably on the
edge of the gravel, not embedded in the tyre wall!) The track
also has an effect - it's much easier to spin out at Monaco and
Interlagos than at (for example) Imola, IMO. Which seems about
right...

The graphics format. Keeping the same file format has made it so
much easier for the Add-on Kings...  ^_^  I've never bought a
game before where the first third party patches/add-ons were
available on the net *before* the official release date! I've
been happily downloading and tweaking...  ^_-

And of course the weather, CPU hog that it is. Schumacher the
Rainmaster I'm not...

Bad things:

Poor FF support. My Logi FF wheel is very nice and works
beautifully in GPL (it actually makes that one easier to drive)
but has very little feel in GP3. And I *still* can't map commands
to the wheel buttons... (Yes, I've downloaded various .con sets
from the web. Not much change there.)

Slo-mo when PO gets excessive. I dislike this intensely - the car
is much harder to control through bends when you can't properly
read the wheel-turn needed. I gather that GP2 was the same,
although I never suffered it on my system. I'm not sure what the
alternative is, though, if you want to keep the graphics on
screen (trackside braking markers, cars behind you in the mirrors
- back *off*, Schuey! - and so forth). Can anyone out there who
knows about programming graphics suggest how it *should* have
been handled?

I have this feeling that the graphics card is woefully
underused...

Overall:

I like it. It may only be GP2.5 as some claim, but I do believe I
can see where the time went in creating it. I don't believe it's
easy to create a really good AI quickly, nor the rain effects on
the various setups... And it's a small team, compared to some.

An F1 sim from Papy might be interesting  - but only if it has
the same sort of learning curve that GP3 does, with its driver
aids...

For the record, I've played GPL, GP2, NFS3, TOCA, Colin Macrae
Rally, SCGT (gods, the track-adding method in that one is a
bastard!) and (the very first racing game I ever bought) Johnny
Herbert's Grand Prix Championship 1998. I've not played any of
the more recent F1 games - I thought about buying F1-2k but it
hasn't hit the 'cheap' bins yet...  ^_^

Martin D. Pay
Who wishes he could get 20+ fps out of MS Flight Sim 2000 with
any form of graphics details visible...  :(

Rod Princ

GP3 after a week...

by Rod Princ » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00



Use the Logitech Profiler. Works here. Have gap, pit on/off and pause
mapped to 3 of my buttons.

Cheers,
Rod.

Gregor Vebl

GP3 after a week...

by Gregor Vebl » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00



> : JUst saw your replays.

> : Doing dohnuts is nothing.
> : The game knows that you are trying to do the dohnuts so it puts you in a pre
> : proggramed routine which allows you to spin freely.

>   (Grin) That would actually be harder to write than the damn physics
> model.  "Engage the donut routine captain the detect donuts alarm has
> been triggered."

> --
> Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
>     Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
>       Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
>      UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

I just wanted to write exactly the same reply, but you beat me to it!

-Gregor

Ashley McConnel

GP3 after a week...

by Ashley McConnel » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Lol - agreed



| : JUst saw your replays.
|
| : Doing dohnuts is nothing.
| : The game knows that you are trying to do the dohnuts so it puts you in a
pre
| : proggramed routine which allows you to spin freely.
|
|   (Grin) That would actually be harder to write than the damn physics
| model.  "Engage the donut routine captain the detect donuts alarm has
| been triggered."
|
| --
| Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
|     Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
|       Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
|      UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

John Wallac

GP3 after a week...

by John Wallac » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00



Yes, but bring the car to a complete halt and come off the brakes -
WHOA! that intertia thingy is still there! The car starts moving
again.

Spooooooky! Well, either spooky or canned.

John

John Wallac

GP3 after a week...

by John Wallac » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:55:17 GMT, Dave K


>"If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car
>feels."

>Who's the idiot that made the above statement?

Anyone who knows anything about cars. Tell me what would be
fundamentally different?

Essentially there is only one, aero (wings and venturi), but that
would not be applicable when sliding the car out of a low speed
corner.

John

Olav K. Malm

GP3 after a week...

by Olav K. Malm » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00




> >You should also take into account the fact that the centre of gravity is
> >biased to the back (you know, where that big engine thingy is *grin*) so
> >after a certain point inertia will stop you from recovering.

> Yes, but bring the car to a complete halt and come off the brakes -
> WHOA! that intertia thingy is still there! The car starts moving
> again.

> Spooooooky! Well, either spooky or canned.

Why is that ?

The only unrealstic thing about that is that the car would stall
before starting to move, but a idling car in gear is moving. It would
certainly not be at standstill, but since no racinggame has modeled
clutch yet I guess this is something we have to live with. In WSC you
will be able to stall the car :)

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying

Richard G Cleg

GP3 after a week...

by Richard G Cleg » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00


:>You should also take into account the fact that the centre of gravity is
:>biased to the back (you know, where that big engine thingy is *grin*) so
:>after a certain point inertia will stop you from recovering.

: Yes, but bring the car to a complete halt and come off the brakes -
: WHOA! that intertia thingy is still there! The car starts moving
: again.

: Spooooooky! Well, either spooky or canned.

  Or... and here the real *** begins... actually just not a very
realistic physics model.  (No, surely not the crowd gasps.)

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
     UPDATED WWW: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Pat Dotso

GP3 after a week...

by Pat Dotso » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Good to have you back, John.

--
PD


> On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:55:17 GMT, Dave K

> >"If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car
> >feels."

> >Who's the idiot that made the above statement?

> Anyone who knows anything about cars. Tell me what would be
> fundamentally different?

> Essentially there is only one, aero (wings and venturi), but that
> would not be applicable when sliding the car out of a low speed
> corner.

> John

Martin D. Pa

GP3 after a week...

by Martin D. Pa » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 09:37:34 GMT, Rod Prince

thus:



>> Poor FF support. My Logi FF wheel is very nice and works
>> beautifully in GPL (it actually makes that one easier to drive)
>> but has very little feel in GP3. And I *still* can't map commands
>> to the wheel buttons... (Yes, I've downloaded various .con sets
>> from the web. Not much change there.)

>Use the Logitech Profiler. Works here. Have gap, pit on/off and pause
>mapped to 3 of my buttons.

No go. The profiler ignores my suggestions...  :(

(BTW it works for my non-FF joystick...)

Martin D. Pay
Frustrated...


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