rec.autos.simulators

Well... no. You have to have both of course. F1RS is a much better simulation of being in a race. But it is not a driving simulation. CPR is a driving simulation as well as GPL. F1RS is a racing simulation, as the box says. It's way fun and you'd better run out and get that PII 400 with V2 before August anyway. :-)

--

mark

F1RS - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.

    So does this mean I don't have to bother upgrading my 3D card to 4MB
    from 2MB just to play F1RS and just continue with GP2 which still has
    the best car physics of any sim out there?? Good.

Well... no. You have to have both of course. F1RS is a much better simulation of being in a race. But it is not a driving simulation. CPR is a driving simulation as well as GPL. F1RS is a racing simulation, as the box says. It's way fun and you'd better run out and get that PII 400 with V2 before August anyway. :-)

--

mark

F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.

    So does this mean I don't have to bother upgrading my 3D card to 4MB
    from 2MB just to play F1RS and just continue with GP2 which still has
    the best car physics of any sim out there?? Good.

I've noticed the CC's in F1RS making mistakes when under pressure, but they rarely come from behind. When they do it's usually catastrophic. Let's say we were to try to implement some of the behavior that you've suggested. How do we get the computer to act like that, and how much processor power does it take?

I'm no programmer by a long shot. I'm pretty much lucky that my wheel is hooked up to the computer, but who's to say that together we might not come up with a workable idea or two.

Wurz is chasing you down at the end of Suzuka. How about three separate driving lines that are each connected to a technique? Regular, Defensive, and Aggressive. Regular is the normal "quick" racing line.  Defensive blocks, goes deeper, and makes x% more mistakes. Aggressive fakes off line, goes deeper, and makes x% more mistakes.  What would it take to implement this kind of behavior? How hard is it to make the AI decide when to use each technique?

Pit strategy seems like it should be pretty easy. If the CC is being held up by traffic 1 or 2 laps before scheduled pit...

--

mark
"If you get to the point where you truly understand what the term 'controlled looseness' means, then, and only then, do you know what the term 'fast' means."

F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.

    >>So please can we have a driving sim, which for the first time ever
    >>provides a revolution in the genre - AI.
    >
    >Yes!

    I believe this is the next major step for simracing. Forget fancy
    graphics and animated pitstops for the moment, and imagine F1RS if the
    AI cars were really clever (or stupid in some cases). Can you imagine
    racing at Suzuka, and it's coming to the end of the race and right
    behind you is Wurz or someone. Every lap at the chicane he shows you a
    wheel to let you know he's behind, he locks up once or twice. Then, two
    laps from the end he decides to slip inside where's there's really no
    chance and blazes past with his tyres smoking. He gets sideways for a
    moment but recovers, though not before slumping into the gravel. His
    wheels spin, but he can't get back out and the race is yours, but it
    wasn't without a fight.

    What about cars that sell you a dummy a la Mansell on the straights, or
    ones that try and overtake on the outside in the wet? Ones that can't
    handle the pressure in front of you and lock up, run wide, whatever?
    Backmarkers that get the hell outta your way? Team-mates working
    together? Drivers changing pit strategy to cope with traffic?

    I appreciate that the AI is the hardest part of a sim to get right, but
    it's time we had some real competition.

    --
    Spudgun

What I'm saying is not exactly to make the AI cars think like a human.
See Mark Jeangerard's response to my post for some good ideas.

--
Spudgun

/Christer
--
http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o) )

The hardest part to do in a racing sim is the physics engine, the AI is just
rule based AI found in any expert system. It does take CPU time, though, and so
does the physics engine and the 3D graphics. So how do we want to divide the
power? More AI and less physics, or More AI and less 3D. My favourite is more of
everything :o), and for this we need faster puters all the time :o).

Since the AI is rule based, the hard part is setting up the rules and iron out
all the bugs in them. Unfortenately, more rules takes more time to execute and
this time has to be multiplied with the number of AIs. So just set up the rules
and off we go, but remember we want as few rules as possible, but not too few
:o).

/Christer, why not try the link below to get a picture of the next big thing in
sim racing :o)
--
http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o) )

Anytime you have a non-scheduled pitstop, like a punctured tire or
something, you've got to pit on the scheduled stop, or keep a finger
on that F2 key.

Real pain in the ass.

Take a peek at http://www.nros.com/

Now _that's_ realistic AI....

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Why would you drag down a discussion to that level? I would love to see the
proof of that statement, though :o).

/Christer

Yeah, kinda destroys the whole point of modern day F1 really.

--
Spudgun

Hi Jeff !

JS> That little glitch drives me *&*(&^(*%%%^$^%##$E!!!!!! crazy.
JS>
JS> Anytime you have a non-scheduled pitstop, like a punctured tire or
JS> something, you've got to pit on the scheduled stop, or keep a finger
JS> on that F2 key.
JS>
JS> Real pain in the ass.

The car was alright. But I think I've found the mistake - I use setups
from f1racingsim.com and there is - by default - a 3-stop-strategy in
all setups.

Sorry, my fault. But not as easy as *you* thought, Jeff.

Also, man mailt sich...

.\\atze        [ FmMW2109 - FmMB2139 ]

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