rec.autos.simulators

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

Kirk Hous

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Kirk Hous » Mon, 20 Aug 2001 03:25:46

"I was refering to the fact that use of a clutch in WSC will require
right foot braking (unless you can match revs). "

That is from my original post.  Plus I'm not sure what will happen if you
over or under rev during a clutchless shift in WSC.  You are right though,
syncromesh is heavy and can't synchronize the engine input and transmision
output shaft as fast as good driver.  If you miss one shift because you
don't want to use a clutch you might lose just as much time as you would by
simply using a clutch the entire time.  I guess it all depends on the skill
level of the driver.
  If you can heel and toe without right foot braking I want your autograph
;)


> Why would a clutch in WSC require right foot braking? Don't they use
> dogboxes? Even privateers use dogboxes! That's like the first thing you
> should buy if your serious about racing.

> BTW, I can hop feet as I don't drag the gas while braking in a straight
> line, I only feed in the gas while going into the corner, so I can use the
> clutch while downshifting then quick hop feet for the corner. I tried it
in
> GPL for a day and was about a second off my PBs at each track doing that,
> but also PB's are your very best and I wasn't quite used to it yet, so I'd
> figure it's about 4 tenths of a second slower a lap at a track that takes
> mid 1m to complete.

> Thanks,
> Alex


> > A couple of clarifications....  When I say clutch I don't mean button on
> > wheel.  I'm talking about a third pedal.  Also I do know that clutch use
> in
> > GPL is not necessary at all.

> > > I was refering to the fact that use of a clutch in WSC (or GPL) will
> > require
> > > right foot braking (unless you can match revs).

Alex Kihuran

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Alex Kihuran » Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:46:35

Maybe if you reduced the travel of the clutch and had extremely strong feet
you could do it... if you had some kind of power assisted clutch with a very
short travel. They should make those! :)

The funny thing is my dad hates left foot braking, just heel and toe all the
way, and he gets mad at me if I left foot brake in our normal cars. :) (I'm
14 btw, so I still have some time until I race, right now he lets me drive
around a 1 lane dirt road at my uncle's house that's on a big hill, and
quite fun to drive, well to me at least as rallying is my favourite
motorsport) I guess when I start racing I'll heal and toe to downshift then
hop over right before the corner to LFB, it's possible...

Thanks,
Alex

> "I was refering to the fact that use of a clutch in WSC will require
> right foot braking (unless you can match revs). "

> That is from my original post.  Plus I'm not sure what will happen if you
> over or under rev during a clutchless shift in WSC.  You are right though,
> syncromesh is heavy and can't synchronize the engine input and transmision
> output shaft as fast as good driver.  If you miss one shift because you
> don't want to use a clutch you might lose just as much time as you would
by
> simply using a clutch the entire time.  I guess it all depends on the
skill
> level of the driver.
>   If you can heel and toe without right foot braking I want your autograph
> ;)



> > Why would a clutch in WSC require right foot braking? Don't they use
> > dogboxes? Even privateers use dogboxes! That's like the first thing you
> > should buy if your serious about racing.

> > BTW, I can hop feet as I don't drag the gas while braking in a straight
> > line, I only feed in the gas while going into the corner, so I can use
the
> > clutch while downshifting then quick hop feet for the corner. I tried it
> in
> > GPL for a day and was about a second off my PBs at each track doing
that,
> > but also PB's are your very best and I wasn't quite used to it yet, so
I'd
> > figure it's about 4 tenths of a second slower a lap at a track that
takes
> > mid 1m to complete.

> > Thanks,
> > Alex


> > > A couple of clarifications....  When I say clutch I don't mean button
on
> > > wheel.  I'm talking about a third pedal.  Also I do know that clutch
use
> > in
> > > GPL is not necessary at all.

> > > > I was refering to the fact that use of a clutch in WSC (or GPL) will
> > > require
> > > > right foot braking (unless you can match revs).

Jonny Hodgso

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Jonny Hodgso » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:55:46


I was referring to the fact that a racing dog (non-synchro) 'box
doesn't need the clutch to shift.  AFAIK in "proper" race series, the
only cars where the clutch is regularly used for shifts are endurance
racers.

Jonny

Haqsa

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Haqsa » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:01:04

I have only been playing GPL for about a month.  Watching my replays, I
can tell that where I am really losing time is in the entry to turns.
So I had been thinking of trying left foot braking anyway, and this
thread got me to finally try it.  It took a day or so to get used to it,
but once I got it I knocked almost half a second off of my best lap at
Monza, and a full second off of my average.  OTOH, my best lap is still
only 1:33.58 and my average lap is more like 1:35, so you could argue
that with continued practice I would have seen the same improvement even
with right foot braking, but I know for sure that I am entering the
turns better using left foot braking.  I am able to control the entry
better, which means I can cut it closer than before, and I am getting
better consistency.  I guess theoretically I could do the same thing
with heel-and-toeing, but that feels so much more awkward than left foot
braking, and the pedals on my Logitech FFGP controller aren't really
well spaced for it.


> I got to a -1 GPLRank with right foot braking and a 1:27.93 at Monza!
But
> then I switched to LFB and now it's at -30 :)

> Thanks,
> Alex


> > If it's good enough not to for Jean Alesi (see
> > http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6848.php3), then it's
> > good enough for me!

> > He's quoted as saying "I do not do left-foot braking. I use my left
> > foot to stand on when I step out of the shower."

> > Yeah, I know if I don't learn I'll probably never better my painful
> > 121.8 GPLRank :-(

Thom j

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Thom j » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:12:48

Keep it up Haqsau! It sounds like you are doing just fine! :)
Since I use paddles I guess its almost like a left brake pedal?

| I have only been playing GPL for about a month.  Watching my replays, I
| can tell that where I am really losing time is in the entry to turns.
| So I had been thinking of trying left foot braking anyway, and this
| thread got me to finally try it.  It took a day or so to get used to it,
| but once I got it I knocked almost half a second off of my best lap at
| Monza, and a full second off of my average.  OTOH, my best lap is still
| only 1:33.58 and my average lap is more like 1:35, so you could argue
| that with continued practice I would have seen the same improvement even
| with right foot braking, but I know for sure that I am entering the
| turns better using left foot braking.  I am able to control the entry
| better, which means I can cut it closer than before, and I am getting
| better consistency.  I guess theoretically I could do the same thing
| with heel-and-toeing, but that feels so much more awkward than left foot
| braking, and the pedals on my Logitech FFGP controller aren't really
| well spaced for it.

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Haqsa

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Haqsa » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:07:52

I would think paddles would be even better.  Fingertip control of
throttle and brake has got to be more precise than foot control.


> Keep it up Haqsau! It sounds like you are doing just fine! :)
> Since I use paddles I guess its almost like a left brake pedal?


> | I have only been playing GPL for about a month.  Watching my
replays, I
> | can tell that where I am really losing time is in the entry to
turns.
> | So I had been thinking of trying left foot braking anyway, and this
> | thread got me to finally try it.  It took a day or so to get used to
it,
> | but once I got it I knocked almost half a second off of my best lap
at
> | Monza, and a full second off of my average.  OTOH, my best lap is
still
> | only 1:33.58 and my average lap is more like 1:35, so you could
argue
> | that with continued practice I would have seen the same improvement
even
> | with right foot braking, but I know for sure that I am entering the
> | turns better using left foot braking.  I am able to control the
entry
> | better, which means I can cut it closer than before, and I am
getting
> | better consistency.  I guess theoretically I could do the same thing
> | with heel-and-toeing, but that feels so much more awkward than left
foot
> | braking, and the pedals on my Logitech FFGP controller aren't really
> | well spaced for it.

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Thom j

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Thom j » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:26

It works for me but then again I've never used pedals :)

| I would think paddles would be even better.  Fingertip control of
| throttle and brake has got to be more precise than foot control.

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Kirk Hous

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Kirk Hous » Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:01:39

AFAIK all Porshce's have synchro so that the technology gains from racing
will trickle down to their road cars.  I think heel and toe will be
necessary if you want to be able to drive all types of simulated cars in the
future.  CanAm was a "proper" race series IMHO.


Marc Fraio

GPL and not left foot braking - there's hope for me yet!

by Marc Fraio » Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:02:02



Me too.  I'm at -6.27 now, (Monster about +105) right foot braking only,
and I see no reason why I can't continue to improve without switching.

        Marc



>> +10.07 here (Monster +285), right foot braking only. I intend to go
> negative
>> using this technique... others have done so before.


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