rec.autos.simulators

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

Olly Greenfiel

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Olly Greenfiel » Thu, 17 May 2001 19:50:03

Has there  ever been an unlimited class of roadcourse racing, which allowed
any size or type of engine, and any body or frame ?   Does any of this form
of racing still exist ? I would think that you could make quite a bit more
horsepower from a turbo 8 liter than a F1 engine can produce. Also, all
wheel drive, and other technologies.
Rick Baumhaue

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Rick Baumhaue » Thu, 17 May 2001 20:32:33

Not sure about the chassis rules, but as far as engines were concerned,
Can-Am was basically unlimited.

Rick


Alan Orto

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Alan Orto » Thu, 17 May 2001 20:45:45

Yep Can-Am and the old IMSA GTP days were pretty much unlimited. It was
amazing racing but unfortunately the unlimited type racing put itself out of
business as the cost to run & develope a car was HUGE.
Now a days top fuel drag racing is as close to unlimited racing.
There has to be another series like that. 1500hp big block in a 1000lb car.
:)


> Not sure about the chassis rules, but as far as engines were concerned,
> Can-Am was basically unlimited.

> Rick



> > Has there  ever been an unlimited class of roadcourse racing, which
> allowed
> > any size or type of engine, and any body or frame ?   Does any of this
> form
> > of racing still exist ? I would think that you could make quite a bit
more
> > horsepower from a turbo 8 liter than a F1 engine can produce. Also, all
> > wheel drive, and other technologies.

David Kar

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by David Kar » Thu, 17 May 2001 20:44:16

Olly,

From   (http://www.racesimcentral.net/) :

by Tony Beadle

If ever a motor racing championship series could be said to have captured
the spirit of an era, then the Can-Am was a true 'Child of the Sixties'. It
was a time of liberation and upheaval throughout society, with an 'anything
goes' attitude and an emphasis on enjoying everyday life to the full. The
Can-Am embraced all those philosophies and produced a legendary form of pure
motorsport that will surely never be repeated, especially in the ever more
excessively regulated 21st century - it was a fantastic free-for-all on four
wheels.

Even the staid sounding official championship name - the Canadian-American
Challenge Cup - was quickly shortened to a much more hip and hard-hitting
title, and the Can-Am came to represent a new motor racing ultimate in
performance, innovation and e***ment. Although classified by the FIA as
Group 7 cars, the original Can-Am rule book was remarkably thin and racers
faced very few restrictions apart from the basic safety requirements of the
day. There was no minimum weight limit, engines could be of any size (with
turbochargers unfettered by waste gates to control boost pressure), tyres of
any width were acceptable and the materials used in the construction of the
car were similarly left to the imagination of the designer.

Big-block Chevrolet V8s mixed it with the largest displacement Ferrari V-12
ever produced and flat-twelve Porsche turbos in a glorious cacophony of raw
horsepower. Space age aerodynamic features rubbed shoulders with good,
old-fashioned, backyard special building techniques, cars sprouted huge
sprint car style wings and even motorised fans to enhance down force as what
started out as racing sports cars evolved into outrageous machines that went
faster than anyone had thought possible.

Of course, the idea of producing a hybrid sports car racer by putting an
American V8 into a lightweight home-built or European chassis had been
around for many years before the birth of the Can-Am. These days, the most
famous exponent of that type of car is probably Carroll Shelby and his Cobra
creations. However, in the 1950s it was wealthy enthusiasts like Briggs
Cunningham and Lance Reventlow who funded the construction of a number of
highly successful sports racers that competed in numerous Sports Car Club of
America (SCCA) road racing events.

But if its lineage can be traced back to the late '50s, the Can-Am
championship in its prime lasted for only nine short years, between 1966 and
1974. And the cars and drivers that took part were some of the best around
and have since become motor racing legends: Denny Hulme (easily the most
successful Can-Am driver), Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, Mark Donohue and many
others; plus classic racecars from McLaren, Lola, Shadow, Ferrari, Porsche
and Jim Hall's never-to-be-forgotten Chaparrals.

While the racing itself could sometimes be rather processional, the awesome
sight and sound of a pack of Can-Am cars hurtling through a corner was
enough of a spectacle to thrill the many thousands of spectators who flocked
to the tracks across North America. Without the sophisticated technology and
on-board cameras we have all come to expect in television coverage of motor
racing today, if you couldn't get to the circuit back then the only way to
share the experience was to read about it in a magazine. And the writers who
reported on the Can-Am were also of championship calibre, producing
evocative text that got you right into the heart of the action and the soul
of the drivers.

Can-Am was a glorious adventure and one that couldn't last, but as long as
cars are raced it will be remembered as an intoxicating period when
international championship motorsport was free-spirited and fun.

----------------------------

See also the article at http://www.racesimcentral.net/
, and I'm sure others can add better links

best,
David Karr


Bill Met

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Bill Met » Fri, 18 May 2001 00:58:46



>Not sure about the chassis rules, but as far as engines were concerned,
>Can-Am was basically unlimited.

It's been a while since I read Pete Lyons excellent Can-Am book, but IIRC
the chassis rules were basically "four wheeles + fenders."  At least in
the early days.

-Bill
--
                    | "Instead of letting the moon be the
Bill Mette          |  gateway to our future, we have let
Enteract, Chicago   |  it become a brief chapter in our
                    |  history."         - Andrew Chaikin

Chris Not

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Chris Not » Fri, 18 May 2001 02:47:50


>Has there  ever been an unlimited class of roadcourse racing, which allowed
>any size or type of engine, and any body or frame ?   Does any of this form
>of racing still exist ? I would think that you could make quite a bit more
>horsepower from a turbo 8 liter than a F1 engine can produce. Also, all
>wheel drive, and other technologies.

It was called the CANADIAN-AMERICAN CHALLENGE CUP. "The series, better
known as the "Can-Am", only lasted 9 seasons (1966-1974), but while they
raced it was the pinnacle of motorsport technology."

Read more here:

http://www.primenet.com/~bobwest/can-am.htm#p2

Chris Noto, see Noto at tee dee ess dot net

Kevin Gavit

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Kevin Gavit » Fri, 18 May 2001 04:49:10


The single largest step in F1 development was made in the mid 30's under the
750 kg formula. The powers that be at the time decided that cars were
getting to big and too fast, so to limit speed they imposed one, and only
one rule on Grand Prix cars, that they should weigh LESS than 750 kg.

The end result were the most powerful, fastest, and technically advanced
Grand Prix cars right up until the turbo age.

The problem these days with a "Formula Libre" is that the state of the art
has advance too far. Look at what happened at Texas with CART. If formula
were unlimited you would massively powerful cars with full ground effects
supplimented by driven fans and stub wings for aero t***. 9 gs in the
turns at Indy ought to be achievable, FAR beyond the capabilities of the
human body to withstand over the course of a race.

The only way these days to have such an 'open' formula would be to impose a
low fuel allowance for the race, ( or a small restrictor plate), and allow
the designers to do whatever they wanted to gain maximum effect from the
limited amount of calories they had to work with.

KFG

Alan Orto

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Alan Orto » Fri, 18 May 2001 15:13:08




> > Has there  ever been an unlimited class of roadcourse racing, which
> allowed
> > any size or type of engine, and any body or frame ?   Does any of this
> form
> > of racing still exist ? I would think that you could make quite a bit
more
> > horsepower from a turbo 8 liter than a F1 engine can produce. Also, all
> > wheel drive, and other technologies.

> The problem these days with a "Formula Libre" is that the state of the art
> has advance too far. Look at what happened at Texas with CART. If formula
> were unlimited you would massively powerful cars with full ground effects
> supplimented by driven fans and stub wings for aero t***. 9 gs in the

Or they could mandate a G-Suit. :)
Kevin Gavit

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Kevin Gavit » Fri, 18 May 2001 20:51:07






> > > Has there  ever been an unlimited class of roadcourse racing, which
> > allowed
> > > any size or type of engine, and any body or frame ?   Does any of this
> > form
> > > of racing still exist ? I would think that you could make quite a bit
> more
> > > horsepower from a turbo 8 liter than a F1 engine can produce. Also,
all
> > > wheel drive, and other technologies.

> > The problem these days with a "Formula Libre" is that the state of the
art
> > has advance too far. Look at what happened at Texas with CART. If
formula
> > were unlimited you would massively powerful cars with full ground
effects
> > supplimented by driven fans and stub wings for aero t***. 9 gs in
the

> Or they could mandate a G-Suit. :)

They could, but they wouldn't work. G suits work in the vertical direction.
A "lateral g suit" is not physiologiclly plausible. What's more g suits are
designed to give a few seconds respite, perhaps a couple of times over the
course of a couple of minutes, and all they do is keep the *** from
pooling in your feet, thus preventing blackout. They do nothing for the
outright physical distress that being pressed under 9 times your own weight
brings.

Turning laps at Indy at 9 gs in the corners, 4 times a lap for 200 laps.
That would be like having a piston hit you in the side with a force of 9
times your body weight  about 8 times a minute. You can wear any sort of
suit or body armor you want, ( and remember, the weight of the armor
increases the force proportionately), and you ain't going to make it through
that.

KFG

Dave Henri

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Dave Henri » Fri, 18 May 2001 22:26:25

  Which means that the racing world will have to follow the Fighter jet
family and produce racing cars with NO driver inside.   Yes we will have new
cars capable of astonishing speeds, but the drivers will be safely tucked
away in a remote facility that allows them to safely pilot the speeding
bullet cars with safety.
dave henrie
Kevin Gavit

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Kevin Gavit » Fri, 18 May 2001 23:19:32


I already race R/C cars. I've pretty much given up on them. GPL is more
realistic.

KFG

Michael Barlo

Was there ever an "Unlimited Class" of roadcourse racing ?

by Michael Barlo » Sat, 19 May 2001 01:40:57

    hmm.. sound remotely like GPL, N4, et.. ;-)


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