rec.autos.simulators

by no » Sat, 07 May 2005 17:07:06

I rushed and bought FORZA for my X-Box and it arrived
yesterday morning.

I drive exclusively from the 'cockpit' view. This is an option
that is nearly impossible on most console racers because..
they have no 'cockpit'.

Some racers, GT4 for example and others, have a bumper-cam
view that is actually almost at the normal eye-level of a
normal driver. It works well for me.

Since FORZA claims to be a simulation of driving, I assumed
that since it had TWO 'bumper-cam' views, one would be at
about the same semi-accurate height of the drivers eyes.

I was wrong.

FORZA's highest bumper-cam view is OBNOXIOUSLY low. Inches
from the pavement. To add to the frustration, the view is
not a wide angle-ish view and is LOCKED forward giving no
look-in or other visual info about the corner being turned
into.

For me, it is undriveable. I won't spend any more of my time
trying to get used to simulating an insect on the bumper whose
tiny head is glued in the forward position.

Try FORZA on the Tsukuba track from the bumpercam view and
attempt to come to grips with the fact that it is darn near
impossible to properly negotiate thse hairpins. Same for the
city circuits and any sharp turns, on any track, for that matter.

I can't return it, since it has been opened and played. People
who enjoy driving in the floating postion behind their cars,
will have no trouble with FORZA.

Forza is a real disappointment to me, and may also be a
disappointment for others like me who like to simulate racing
and driving from -inside the car-. For people that can turn fast
times - with the aids off - from a bumper-cam view, more power
to you! I'm just not as good as you are.

I would suggest that if you use bumper-cam/cockpit views in
your sims and other racers, you better try a demo of FORZA
before plunking down 50 bucks like I did.

I am very disappointed, but it's my fault for not trying a demo..

by **rrevve** » Sat, 07 May 2005 17:10:00

Oops! I just posted that from my other account. It is me .. rrevved .
I am not Mr. No ,, hehe.

>I rushed and bought FORZA for my X-Box and it arrived
>yesterday morning.

>I drive exclusively from the 'cockpit' view. This is an option
>that is nearly impossible on most console racers because..
>they have no 'cockpit'.

>Some racers, GT4 for example and others, have a bumper-cam
>view that is actually almost at the normal eye-level of a
>normal driver. It works well for me.

>Since FORZA claims to be a simulation of driving, I assumed
>that since it had TWO 'bumper-cam' views, one would be at
>about the same semi-accurate height of the drivers eyes.

>I was wrong.

>FORZA's highest bumper-cam view is OBNOXIOUSLY low. Inches
>from the pavement. To add to the frustration, the view is
>not a wide angle-ish view and is LOCKED forward giving no
>look-in or other visual info about the corner being turned
>into.

>For me, it is undriveable. I won't spend any more of my time
>trying to get used to simulating an insect on the bumper whose
>tiny head is glued in the forward position.

>Try FORZA on the Tsukuba track from the bumpercam view and
>attempt to come to grips with the fact that it is darn near
>impossible to properly negotiate thse hairpins. Same for the
>city circuits and any sharp turns, on any track, for that matter.

>I can't return it, since it has been opened and played. People
>who enjoy driving in the floating postion behind their cars,
>will have no trouble with FORZA.

>Forza is a real disappointment to me, and may also be a
>disappointment for others like me who like to simulate racing
>and driving from -inside the car-. For people that can turn fast
>times - with the aids off - from a bumper-cam view, more power
>to you! I'm just not as good as you are.

>I would suggest that if you use bumper-cam/cockpit views in
>your sims and other racers, you better try a demo of FORZA
>before plunking down 50 bucks like I did.

>I am very disappointed, but it's my fault for not trying a demo..

by **Rob John** » Sat, 07 May 2005 17:43:18

View three is what you want, I just had GT4 running side by side with Forza
(both using an Integra) and couldn't see any difference using the driver
view.

Forza cam views:
1. Chase Close
2. Chase Close (higher up)
3. Driver View (height changes are based on the height of the car, like GT)
4. Bumper Cam

Hope that helps.

Cheers

by **rrevve** » Sat, 07 May 2005 17:47:15

>View three is what you want, I just had GT4 running side by side with Forza
>(both using an Integra) and couldn't see any difference using the driver
>view.

>Forza cam views:
>1. Chase Close
>2. Chase Close (higher up)
>3. Driver View (height changes are based on the height of the car, like GT)
>4. Bumper Cam

>Hope that helps.

>Cheers

I went back and did some arcade races in Forza which
let me try more cars. Maybe I was a little unkind to
it. The danged driver view is still too low, IMO, but it really
isn't too bad. I think what is giving me the most trouble is
look-in to the corners, particularly hairpins and city circuits.

I would still recommend trying a demo, but maybe the
view isn't as bad as I thought. So it changes based
on the cars you drive? Hmm..

Thanks!

by **Rob John** » Sat, 07 May 2005 18:07:10

I really noticed it cause I went from driving (and spinning) the Pontiac GTO
to the Panoz Le Mans car, which ended in an even nastier shunt with a wall a
Road Atlanta and realised the wall looked taller (if that makes any sense)
lol.

Sorry about going way off topic but is Road Atlanta also in the old PC
SportsCar GT game? It does seem familiar.

Cheers

by **Dav** » Sat, 07 May 2005 19:47:40

>I went back and did some arcade races in Forza which
>let me try more cars. Maybe I was a little unkind to
>it. The danged driver view is still too low, IMO, but it really
>isn't too bad. I think what is giving me the most trouble is
>look-in to the corners, particularly hairpins and city circuits.

I'll probably buy it today. I played the demo and I too found its
view similar to GT's. Well, we'd all prefer a real***pit view.
But I have no problem ripping off fast times with this view. As
for seeing into corners, I believe there is a pan control that
lets you look 45-degree and 90-degree L/R (I know the latter
exists, and read about the 45).

In the demo, the brakes were almost uncontrollable with ABS-off.
Took a very, very careful finger. Have they fixed this in the
final version?

by **the.internet.u..** » Sat, 07 May 2005 21:03:00

Yes, RA was in the orginal SCGT but that version was absolutely
terrible. I don't think the climb up to turns 5, 6, 7 is steep enough,
but otherwise the track is modeled well. The run down to turns 10a and
10b seems to be just about right though.

by **rrevve** » Sat, 07 May 2005 23:46:45

Coming out from under the RA bridge in Forza is still not steep enough.
In real life, you lose sight of the track for a couple of scary seconds.
You see .. sky.

I'm glad RA's in Forza, since it's my old home track, but it just doesn't
feel right.

Anyone else feel the same way?

by **Joe6** » Sun, 08 May 2005 01:41:37

>FORZA's highest bumper-cam view is OBNOXIOUSLY low. Inches
>from the pavement. To add to the frustration, the view is
>not a wide angle-ish view and is LOCKED forward giving no
>look-in or other visual info about the corner being turned
>into.

I hear ya, GT4 is a little better in their "driver" view. But I don't
find the Forza one that bad, certainly not unplayable. I'm having a
blast with this game playing exclusively from this viewpoint.

by **John Cauthe** » Sun, 08 May 2005 05:06:06

I find that the "driver view" varies considerably with the cars. For
example, in "C" class, I like driving the Viper, but it's driver view seems
to be about mid front grill. The bumper cam has you inches above the road.
I live driving the Viper in this game, but the driver view can be a real
disadvantage in traffic. Most of the other cars in this class seem to have
the driver view at the right height though... go figure.

I really lament the lack of, at least, TOCA2's dashboard, hood, and
windshield frame to give you some sense of being in a car. I think they
could have done it if they'd cut back on the number of cars offered. But
you have a net full of whimpering mama's-boys crying because Forza lacks the
number of cars that GT4 has, so Microsoft was against the wall with this
one.

None the less, I think the lack of***pit t***s in a simulation that's
otherwise as pure as Forza Motorsport is a slap in its face. If TOCA2 can
give us true/truer***pit views, then certainly Forza could have done
likewise.

Even with this limitation though, I'm still thoroughly enjoying Forza
Motorsport. It didn't jump up and WOW me the way TOCA 2 did at first look,
but the more I play it, the more I appreciate the depth and feel that it
offers. It's definitely a keeper for me, and I'm one who spits on the grave
of these so-called "driver views", which are actually nothing more than
"hood ornament" views.

> On Fri, 6 May 2005 18:43:18 +1000, "Rob Johns"

> >View three is what you want, I just had GT4 running side by side with
Forza
> >(both using an Integra) and couldn't see any difference using the driver
> >view.

> >Forza cam views:
> >1. Chase Close
> >2. Chase Close (higher up)
> >3. Driver View (height changes are based on the height of the car, like
GT)
> >4. Bumper Cam

> >Hope that helps.

> >Cheers

> I went back and did some arcade races in Forza which
> let me try more cars. Maybe I was a little unkind to
> it. The danged driver view is still too low, IMO, but it really
> isn't too bad. I think what is giving me the most trouble is
> look-in to the corners, particularly hairpins and city circuits.

> I would still recommend trying a demo, but maybe the
> view isn't as bad as I thought. So it changes based
> on the cars you drive? Hmm..

> Thanks!

by **Alan Bernard** » Sun, 08 May 2005 05:25:06

>>Yes, RA was in the orginal SCGT but that version was absolutely
>>terrible. I don't think the climb up to turns 5, 6, 7 is steep enough,
>>but otherwise the track is modeled well. The run down to turns 10a and
>>10b seems to be just about right though.

> Coming out from under the RA bridge in Forza is still not steep enough.
> In real life, you lose sight of the track for a couple of scary seconds.
> You see .. sky.

> I'm glad RA's in Forza, since it's my old home track, but it just doesn't
> feel right.

> Anyone else feel the same way?

Well, if you want something that is totally realistic, try driving a real
car. I think you're expectations aren't in line with the fact that this is
mimicked reality, not the real thing.

Alanb

by **rrevve** » Sun, 08 May 2005 05:45:24

>>>Yes, RA was in the orginal SCGT but that version was absolutely
>>>terrible. I don't think the climb up to turns 5, 6, 7 is steep enough,
>>>but otherwise the track is modeled well. The run down to turns 10a and
>>>10b seems to be just about right though.

>> Coming out from under the RA bridge in Forza is still not steep enough.
>> In real life, you lose sight of the track for a couple of scary seconds.
>> You see .. sky.

>> I'm glad RA's in Forza, since it's my old home track, but it just doesn't
>> feel right.

>> Anyone else feel the same way?

>Well, if you want something that is totally realistic, try driving a real
>car. I think you're expectations aren't in line with the fact that this is
>mimicked reality, not the real thing.

>Alanb

Ouch ... LOL

rec.autos.simulators

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.

Forza: Undriveable from 'cockpit' view.