rec.autos.simulators

On AutoSimSport Rant

alex martin

On AutoSimSport Rant

by alex martin » Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:33:38

On careful consideration, I can understand why certain offense was taken to
the final column of this month's edition. I am aware of the criticism, and
have evaluated the column.

However, I stand by the fact that it was firstly a rant and, secondly,
reflected a real problem within the sim community. In addition, freedom of
speech is precisely that - freedom to speak as you will.

But ... freedom of speech is not freedom to hurt. Therefore the offending
column will be re-edited and re-posted within 24 hours.

All the best, and hope some of you njoyed the rest of the ezine.
Alex.

Ashley McConnel

On AutoSimSport Rant

by Ashley McConnel » Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:31:53

Alex,

Freedom to speak doesn't mean you should exercise that freedom.  I have
just read what you wrote in the final section and I must say that I am
shocked and saddened by the personal attacks there.  It just isn't the
place to air personal grievances in public.

I'm embarassed to have my name associated with such abuse.  If people
don't want to participate in your magazine, so be it (as that seems to
be the real reason that you went to town on them!).

It is a pity as the rest of the magazine was very good IMO.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to have any more to do with FILSCA, there
is enough ***ing in the sim-racing world without AutoSim Sport adding
to it.

There is also a lot more important things (highlighted by recent
international events) to get worked up about.

Take care,
Ash

alex martin

On AutoSimSport Rant

by alex martin » Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:00:55

As I said, I have re-edited the piece, and certainly did not mean to cause
such frenzy - had I known it would *** such hate-filled emails (not
yours, btw, but I have a few choice ones) I would most certainly not have
spent the time to create the ezine. The edition was, with the exception of
one section, my work, so I take full blame. I should have known better.

However, it is a lesson learnt. The overwhelmingly negative feedback has
demonstrated, perhaps completely, that this type of ezine is not needed nor
wanted by the majority - so I'll see if there is a small market out there
for it or else can it completely.

As a personal note, Ashley, had I known that the 100 or so man-hours it took
me to create this ezine would have resulted in your embarrassment, I would
most certainly have had second-thoughts about it. It was, and remains, a
labour of dedication to the community, and by focusing on the small
developers, I thought I was doing you - and guys like you - a favour. So I
apologise for the debacle and claim only my lack of intent - and bad
judgment - as reason.

Saddened to read you post.
All the very best,
Alex

Ashley McConnel

On AutoSimSport Rant

by Ashley McConnel » Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:49:09

Alex,

I think that the overwhelming view is that the ezine itself was good
and was well worth reading.

As I said, I was embarassed by the tirade of personal abuse and I
enjoyed the rest of the ezine.  I would even agree with the point of
the rant (people needlessly ***ing ruins the sim community), but the
way you did it just added to the ***ing (as you now know
unfortunately).

I didn't (and didn't intend to) say that your hard work wasn't worth it
or wasn't appreciated.  I think that the rest of the stories were very
interesting.

Hate-filled emails seem to be the norm these days :(.  When all is said
and done it's only a few pixels flickering on a screen (How ever much
we enjoy it!) :)
All the best,
Ash

---
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

alex martin

On AutoSimSport Rant

by alex martin » Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:21:48

Appreciated Ashley; as I said, the best I can do is edit the content and
re-upload. It's the first issue, let's call it a problem birth - but it is
alive and will get better.

The drummer for Def Leppard only has one arm

On AutoSimSport Rant

by The drummer for Def Leppard only has one arm » Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:25:15


> On careful consideration, I can understand why certain offense was taken to
> the final column of this month's edition. I am aware of the criticism, and
> have evaluated the column.

> However, I stand by the fact that it was firstly a rant and, secondly,
> reflected a real problem within the sim community. In addition, freedom of
> speech is precisely that - freedom to speak as you will.

> But ... freedom of speech is not freedom to hurt. Therefore the offending
> column will be re-edited and re-posted within 24 hours.

> All the best, and hope some of you njoyed the rest of the ezine.
> Alex.

The best relationships get off to rocky starts.
Bob Simpso

On AutoSimSport Rant

by Bob Simpso » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:10:24

As I've said before, the rest of the ezine is great.  You're showing
good judgement to edit it and I look forward to more issues. Probably
just leaving that one item behind and moving on is the best to do.
Bob Simpson
mcewen

On AutoSimSport Rant

by mcewen » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 02:06:21

The freedom of speech argument is pretty seriously weakened by the
lengthy and pompous (I'm sorry but that's the best description that
fits), download disclaimer that the ezeen hides behind.

For all I know you've got pictorials of sim racers copulating with
sheep in your rant and you need the disclaimer to protect you from
slander/libel suits.   I have no idea because I have chosen not to
download given that disclaimer.

Personally I don't hold opinions that have to hide behind such a
statement to be of much value.
I'm no lawyer (otherwise I'd know if such a thing was slander or
libel) but I doubt that disclaimer would stand up in any court of law
to any blatant crimes so what's the point of it?

You're also using the same argument FILSCA did in the beginning,
"we've put a lot of work into this so you should appreciate it".
There is no link between the two as far as I can tell.  Chuck Heston
probably puts a lot of work into the NRA, some may appreciate it, many
don't.

I'll be recommending to any leagues I'm involved in not to have any
involvement with FILSCA until after their next democratic election of
officers.  (coincidently a question that wasn't answered in my other
post).

Art

gordon.cit..

On AutoSimSport Rant

by gordon.cit.. » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 04:53:47


> The freedom of speech argument is pretty
> seriously weakened [...]

There is no freedom of speech argument. Nobody suggested he doesn't
have a legal right to say what he did.

Having the right to say something doesn't mean what you're saying is
right. If you rant about how much you hate black people, calling it a
'rant' and pointing out your legal right to say it doesn't make it any
less offensive.

IMO, his reaction to the criticism has been as immature as the original
rant, including such pouts as "negative feedback has demonstrated,
perhaps completely, that this type of ezine is not needed nor
wanted by the majority". You can just see the bottom lip sticking out
on that one.

The magazine was enjoyable, but the 'rant' column needs to go entirely,
at least until he can genuinely see that this particular rant was not
only in poor taste but highly hypocritical.

mcewen

On AutoSimSport Rant

by mcewen » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 05:13:38

My legal knowledge is based almost entirely on US and british TV crime
dramas so I'll admit to a serious handicap (but problem no more so then
most lay folk), but to me the download disclaimer (repeated below)
says, "We can say what ever we want and you can't critisize or respond
in any meaningful way."   Seems a little over the top to be talking
about virtual cars going around virtual tracks so I didn't bother.

WARNING: By downloading AutoSimSport, you waive any rights you may have
against AutoSimSport, its editors, its writers, or any other person
related to AutoSimSport in any way. Download and read the issue at your
own risk. Click the frontpage of the issue, and enjoy. The PDF file
requires Acrobat Reader.

alex martin

On AutoSimSport Rant

by alex martin » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 05:54:33

Blatant crimes does not fall into libelous/slanderous/defamation/contractual
law. I cannot absolve myself from breaking the law.

What I can do - and have attempted to do - is protect the good people who
write/contribute to the ezine. The last thing they need - after investing
time for free - is a libel suit from some groan who thinks the content is
'innapropriate'.

Hence the waiver agreement; when you d/load, you d/load as is. If it offends
you, then you are free - as you have chosen - not to download.

Te issue of whether it will stand up in a court of Law is an odd thing to
bring up; it amazes me Art - and others who have said this in this forum -
that the issue of libel/slander would even be brought up re: a free ezine
created for the community with nothing but time and good wishes.

In short, we work for free, we distribute for free, we make no money, and I
personally pay for the software that was neccessary to create it, and FILSCA
pays to make it available for free.

Libel? Slander? Defamation? For a freely distubuted ezine? Yes, Gordon
(whose post is in this thread) my lip is very down at this kind of nonsense.
You are free to enjoy the ezine - or hate it - or slag it off - or not
bother with it. But to inimate at slander/libel is a tad much, don't you
think?


mcewen

On AutoSimSport Rant

by mcewen » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 06:31:29

How can it be a tad much if you've just said that's what the disclaimer
is there to protect you from?

Like I also said, I have no idea what's behind the ominous warning, but
given the self importance of the disclaimer itself I'll vote for "not
bother with it".   It's like being asked to sign a waiver to open up
the TV Guide..

BTW don't bother answering the FILSCA election question, I think I
answered it for myself, I searched the public filsca forums for
"election" or "elected" and came up with nothing since the fall of 2001
so I got the message.

alex martin

On AutoSimSport Rant

by alex martin » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 06:59:56

Well Art, I'm in no mood to have a to and from with you, life's too short.
But no, the disclaimer is there to - as I said in my previous post, and I
repeat for your benefit - protect the writers from any groan finding the
contents innapropriate. The operative word being - for a third time, just in
case you missed it -innapropriate.

The discussion of libel/slander has been one that you have invented - and
repeated - over the course of your emails. If you want to explore the
libel/slander issue, please go ahead. You have my details.

Btw, I'm curious to know of your contributions to the community. Please let
me know; I think it only fair if I have an opportunity to crtique your
contributions. Only fair, don't you think?


mcewen

On AutoSimSport Rant

by mcewen » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:37:10

I guess I don't know what innapropriate could mean in the context of
the written word if it wasn't vaguely libel/slander (unless there
really are sheep photos in there....?)   Yes I guess my imagination
invented it, because I read the disclaimer, read the posts about the
editorial policy and decided not to bother downloading.

My contributions to the community?  hmm well lets see, mostly this week
I've been busy poking fun at a pseudo club that says it speaks for sim
racing leagues, but I'll problably give that up soon as a lost cause.
I placed 3rd in my league race this week, on a server that several
(outlaw non-filsca) leagues around the world use that sits in my
ba***t.

I had such high hopes for what filsca could be so that's the sad part...

mcewen

On AutoSimSport Rant

by mcewen » Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:21:45

Thanks Ken, but more importantly:  I placed 3rd in my league race  ;)

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