rec.autos.simulators

OT: Bang for the Buck - Sim Upgrade?

Tim Mise

OT: Bang for the Buck - Sim Upgrade?

by Tim Mise » Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:48:27

No no no, the intent of the example is to give you an idea in what the
results of the effects of CPU vs. Video Card benchmarks.

The key of any system is to have a "well balanced system" and yours is well
balanced with your XP 1700 and Radeon 8500LE.  If you had a 1.2 Ghz
processor with a Radeon 9700Pro then you'd see a CPU bottleneck on most
games or vice versa.  The way to see where your bottleneck is is to pick a
game and benchmark it at all resolutions.  You will see at the lower
resolutions it will bench relatively high and as the resolution increases,
it will start to slow down.  Now if you play at a high resolution and your
benchmark slows down considerably at higher resolution, then you have a
video card bottleneck.  If it doesn't slow down considerably, then you have
a cpu bottleneck.

-Tim


> So, I guess what you're saying is that the only way to see what the
bottleneck
> is, is to try a faster videocard and note the difference in framerate.
Then go
> back to the original videocard and upgrade the processor and again note
the
> difference in framerate.  Then pick the one that gives you the biggest
jump.
> That seems like an expensive proposition to me, since you need both a new
> videocard and a new processor to conduct that experiment.

> I guess then  that there's no simple way of deciding _before_ investing in
> either a new CPU or a new videocard?

> (Not trying to be difficult, but I was hoping to find a more direct way to
> determine which one to upgrade).

> In a related matter -- I have an Epox 8Kha+ Mobo.  Does anyone know where
I can
> find out the fastest processor it presently supports (or will support in
the
> future?  A url or newsgroup, perhaps?

> Thanks!

> Bert


> > This can vary depending on the game but here is an example of benchmark
of
> > the same game & settings but only changing the resolution & the video
card:

> > XP 1900+ with Original Radeon
> > 640x480        75 fps  <-- Video card bottleneck
> > 800x600        54 fps  <-- Video card bottleneck
> > 1024x768      35 fps  <-- Video card bottleneck
> > 1600x1200    24 fps  <-- Video card bottleneck

> > XP 1900+ with Radeon 9700Pro
> > 640x480     130 fps  <-- CPU bottleneck
> > 800x600     128 fps  <-- CPU bottleneck
> > 1024x768   125 fps  <-- CPU bottleneck
> > 1600x1200 108 fps  <-- CPU bottleneck

> > -Tim



> > > Curious -- On a given system, how can you tell what the bottleneck is
> > between
> > > videocard and CPU?  (I have an Athlon XP1700 and radeon 8500LE.)

> > > Thanks,
> > > Bert


> > > > First - Newer, faster hard drive.  20GB drives are slow compared to
> > today's
> > > > 7200 RPM drives with the data densities they are running...  The
Maxtor
> > > > Diamondmax Plus 7200 RPM 80GB D740 drives are around $100 these
days.

> > > > If you buy a drive, make sure you do it before October 1st.  Most
major
> > > > manufacturers are dropping their multi-year warranties and going to
> > > > consumer-screwing 1 year warranties starting October 1st...  Check
the
> > box!

> > > > I find it fishy that they all did it at exactly the same time.

> > > > Second - DDR Memory.

> > > > Last - Video Card.  However, your processor can't feed today's
> > > > top-of-the-line cards sufficiently so you won't see all the benifit
> > > > available.  My Athlon XP 1800+ can't feed my GeForce 4 Ti4400 fully,
and
> > the
> > > > processor is my current hold-back.

> > > > -Larry



> > > > > Hey all..
> > > > > If I have a few hundred dollars to burn, what would be a good
upgrade
> > do
> > > > you
> > > > > think? Sort of offtopic, but I'm sure some others would be
interested
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > answers. Especially since it would sort of show what is the most
> > important
> > > > > thing to spend money on.

> > > > > My current setup is:
> > > > > Athlon 1700+ XP
> > > > > Radeon 7500 64MB DDR.
> > > > > 17" Monitor
> > > > > 256MB PC133 RAM.
> > > > > Thrustmaster/Guillemot Ferrari FF Wheel.

> > > > > I don't have any problems with my wheel, but I would really like a
new
> > set
> > > > > of pedals maybe even with a clutch. A new shifter isn't really
> > important
> > > > to
> > > > > me since I play mainly rally games, so the sequential shifter or
the
> > > > paddles
> > > > > is fine enough.

> > > > > Some new DDR RAM (which I can also fit on my mobo) would be a nice
> > upgrade
> > > > > too, and would probably benefit in performance over the current
PC133
> > ram.

> > > > > A new video card maybe? Although I'm still happy with my current
one..

> > > > > A bigger monitor? Does a 21" monitor really help? I'd assume it
would
> > with
> > > > > sense of speed, and you could probably run wider FOV in GPL maybe?

> > > > > A new processor?

> > > > > So basically, if I could swap out any part of my system for a
newer
> > one
> > > > (as
> > > > > a treat to myself) which should it be (in terms of bang for the
buck)?
> > > > Also,
> > > > > I only have a 20GIG hard drive.. maybe a new harddrive would be a
> > > > priority?

> > > > > Mike
> > > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

GBB

OT: Bang for the Buck - Sim Upgrade?

by GBB » Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:31:48

It'll support every current Athlon XP processor and every future one until
the XP2700+ which will be 166Mhz fsb.


GBB

OT: Bang for the Buck - Sim Upgrade?

by GBB » Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:35:41

It's water-cooled, 174*10.5 on an EPoX 8K3A, temps are about 40 idle 48 load
from the XP's internal diode.


> What are you using for cooling at what settings are you using?
> What temps do you run under idle/load?



> > You can now, I've got a XP1600 running at 2200+ speed, 1836Mhz Prime95
> > stable and that's at default voltage :-)



> > > Makes sense to me.. good call on the processor. Although, It might be
> good
> > > to wait until the new generation of chips come out, so I can score a
> > 2200+XP
> > > for cheap.

> > > Mike
> > > http://mikebeauchamp.com

bertr

OT: Bang for the Buck - Sim Upgrade?

by bertr » Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:23:02

OK.  Thanks for that clarification, Tim!

> No no no, the intent of the example is to give you an idea in what the
> results of the effects of CPU vs. Video Card benchmarks.

> The key of any system is to have a "well balanced system" and yours is well
> balanced with your XP 1700 and Radeon 8500LE.  If you had a 1.2 Ghz
> processor with a Radeon 9700Pro then you'd see a CPU bottleneck on most
> games or vice versa.  The way to see where your bottleneck is is to pick a
> game and benchmark it at all resolutions.  You will see at the lower
> resolutions it will bench relatively high and as the resolution increases,
> it will start to slow down.  Now if you play at a high resolution and your
> benchmark slows down considerably at higher resolution, then you have a
> video card bottleneck.  If it doesn't slow down considerably, then you have
> a cpu bottleneck.

> -Tim



> > So, I guess what you're saying is that the only way to see what the
> bottleneck
> > is, is to try a faster videocard and note the difference in framerate.
> Then go
> > back to the original videocard and upgrade the processor and again note
> the
> > difference in framerate.  Then pick the one that gives you the biggest
> jump.
> > That seems like an expensive proposition to me, since you need both a new
> > videocard and a new processor to conduct that experiment.

> > I guess then  that there's no simple way of deciding _before_ investing in
> > either a new CPU or a new videocard?

> > (Not trying to be difficult, but I was hoping to find a more direct way to
> > determine which one to upgrade).

> > In a related matter -- I have an Epox 8Kha+ Mobo.  Does anyone know where
> I can
> > find out the fastest processor it presently supports (or will support in
> the
> > future?  A url or newsgroup, perhaps?

> > Thanks!

> > Bert


> > > This can vary depending on the game but here is an example of benchmark
> of
> > > the same game & settings but only changing the resolution & the video
> card:

> > > XP 1900+ with Original Radeon
> > > 640x480        75 fps  <-- Video card bottleneck
> > > 800x600        54 fps  <-- Video card bottleneck
> > > 1024x768      35 fps  <-- Video card bottleneck
> > > 1600x1200    24 fps  <-- Video card bottleneck

> > > XP 1900+ with Radeon 9700Pro
> > > 640x480     130 fps  <-- CPU bottleneck
> > > 800x600     128 fps  <-- CPU bottleneck
> > > 1024x768   125 fps  <-- CPU bottleneck
> > > 1600x1200 108 fps  <-- CPU bottleneck

> > > -Tim



> > > > Curious -- On a given system, how can you tell what the bottleneck is
> > > between
> > > > videocard and CPU?  (I have an Athlon XP1700 and radeon 8500LE.)

> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Bert


> > > > > First - Newer, faster hard drive.  20GB drives are slow compared to
> > > today's
> > > > > 7200 RPM drives with the data densities they are running...  The
> Maxtor
> > > > > Diamondmax Plus 7200 RPM 80GB D740 drives are around $100 these
> days.

> > > > > If you buy a drive, make sure you do it before October 1st.  Most
> major
> > > > > manufacturers are dropping their multi-year warranties and going to
> > > > > consumer-screwing 1 year warranties starting October 1st...  Check
> the
> > > box!

> > > > > I find it fishy that they all did it at exactly the same time.

> > > > > Second - DDR Memory.

> > > > > Last - Video Card.  However, your processor can't feed today's
> > > > > top-of-the-line cards sufficiently so you won't see all the benifit
> > > > > available.  My Athlon XP 1800+ can't feed my GeForce 4 Ti4400 fully,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > processor is my current hold-back.

> > > > > -Larry



> > > > > > Hey all..
> > > > > > If I have a few hundred dollars to burn, what would be a good
> upgrade
> > > do
> > > > > you
> > > > > > think? Sort of offtopic, but I'm sure some others would be
> interested
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > answers. Especially since it would sort of show what is the most
> > > important
> > > > > > thing to spend money on.

> > > > > > My current setup is:
> > > > > > Athlon 1700+ XP
> > > > > > Radeon 7500 64MB DDR.
> > > > > > 17" Monitor
> > > > > > 256MB PC133 RAM.
> > > > > > Thrustmaster/Guillemot Ferrari FF Wheel.

> > > > > > I don't have any problems with my wheel, but I would really like a
> new
> > > set
> > > > > > of pedals maybe even with a clutch. A new shifter isn't really
> > > important
> > > > > to
> > > > > > me since I play mainly rally games, so the sequential shifter or
> the
> > > > > paddles
> > > > > > is fine enough.

> > > > > > Some new DDR RAM (which I can also fit on my mobo) would be a nice
> > > upgrade
> > > > > > too, and would probably benefit in performance over the current
> PC133
> > > ram.

> > > > > > A new video card maybe? Although I'm still happy with my current
> one..

> > > > > > A bigger monitor? Does a 21" monitor really help? I'd assume it
> would
> > > with
> > > > > > sense of speed, and you could probably run wider FOV in GPL maybe?

> > > > > > A new processor?

> > > > > > So basically, if I could swap out any part of my system for a
> newer
> > > one
> > > > > (as
> > > > > > a treat to myself) which should it be (in terms of bang for the
> buck)?
> > > > > Also,
> > > > > > I only have a 20GIG hard drive.. maybe a new harddrive would be a
> > > > > priority?

> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > http://mikebeauchamp.com

bertr

OT: Bang for the Buck - Sim Upgrade?

by bertr » Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:23:33

OK.  Thanks for that info!

> It'll support every current Athlon XP processor and every future one until
> the XP2700+ which will be 166Mhz fsb.



> > In a related matter -- I have an Epox 8Kha+ Mobo.  Does anyone know where
> I can
> > find out the fastest processor it presently supports (or will support in
> the
> > future?  A url or newsgroup, perhaps?

> > Thanks!

> > Bert

Tim Mise

OT: Bang for the Buck - Sim Upgrade?

by Tim Mise » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 06:29:56

I hope you're right but according to an Epox tech guy in the UK, the 2200
will be the last for the 8KHA+.
See this link:

http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=d68abaab167489b7a7176...
00d6&threadid=8856

-Tim


> It'll support every current Athlon XP processor and every future one until
> the XP2700+ which will be 166Mhz fsb.



> > In a related matter -- I have an Epox 8Kha+ Mobo.  Does anyone know
where
> I can
> > find out the fastest processor it presently supports (or will support in
> the
> > future?  A url or newsgroup, perhaps?

> > Thanks!

> > Bert

Jussi 'Igor' Koukk

OT: Bang for the Buck - Sim Upgrade?

by Jussi 'Igor' Koukk » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:12:41


wrote somtehing like this:

There is a relatively simple way; the 3DMark result database at
www.madonion.com ... I think you'll need to run the test (2000 or 2001
version) and submit your results before you can do searches there. It
won't give you the definitive answer on how to upgrade you machine, as
most of the highest points have been achieved with tweaks that
probably make actual games unplayable and/or unstable, but it'll give
you some idea.
--
- Igor -


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