rec.autos.simulators

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

Don Burnett

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Don Burnett » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 11:40:07

That's kind of my take also, I played around with AA in N2K2, and while
certainly there are some jaggies without it, it doesn't really bother me
that bad. I ended up increasing the resolution to 1600x1200x32 with no aa,
and am still around 100 fps.
It is nice I can now run AA with this GeForce 4 card, but it still is quite
a performance hit - although certainly 50-60 fps is playable.

Don Burnette



> I'll take 100fps and jaggies :)

> -Larry



> > Well, I have a Athlon XP 1800+ and a GeForce 4 Ti4400 and at 1024x768x32
> > with Quincunx 4xAA enabled I average around 38fps in N2k2 with all
> settings
> > on (including 3d audio), 32 drivers up front, 8 in rear and 87% view
> > distance. The lowest I have ever seen it fall with smoke and a huge pile
> up
> > is around 24fps.

> > I don't see how anyone can run N2k2 without AA of some kind--it is jaggy
> as
> > all hell without it!

> > --
> > ---------------------
> > Rob Berryhill





> > > > F12002 - running in d3d 1280x1024x32 - Practice at Hockenheim with
> full
> > > > field of ai
> > > > GeForce 3 Ti200 - averaged upper 50 fps
> > > > GeForce 4 4400 - averaged low 90's fps
> > > > ( note: when I reconfigured the 3d, it reset some textures to full,
so
> > > > dispay was increased some)

> > > What kind of performance hit would 4XFSAA bring you down to in F12002?
> I
> > > would say 1024x768x32 would be a good starting point for 4XFSAA, don't
> you
> > > think?  If I could get 40's and 50's with that, I would be ecstatic.

> > > - David Cook

Don Burnett

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Don Burnett » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 12:08:24






> > > F12002 - running in d3d 1280x1024x32 - Practice at Hockenheim with
full
> > > field of ai
> > > GeForce 3 Ti200 - averaged upper 50 fps
> > > GeForce 4 4400 - averaged low 90's fps
> > > ( note: when I reconfigured the 3d, it reset some textures to full, so
> > > dispay was increased some)

> > What kind of performance hit would 4XFSAA bring you down to in F12002?
I
> > would say 1024x768x32 would be a good starting point for 4XFSAA, don't
you
> > think?  If I could get 40's and 50's with that, I would be ecstatic.

> > - David Cook

> Haven't tried 4X yet, however I did just run F12002 in 1280x1024x32 with
> quincux AA,. and was getting in the upper 50's low 60's.
> I'll give 4X a try at 1024x768x32 and let ya know.

> Don Burnette

Ok, changed my settings in F12002 to 1024x768x32 and enabled 4XAA.
Framerates were in the mid to upper 40's. Went back out and changed it to
quincunx AA, framerates then went up into the mid 90's, and honestly I
thought it looked just as good if not a little better than 4X.
After doing that, and changed N2002 to the same resolution and with quincunx
AA enabled, testing at Michigan I was in the 130-140 fps range.
Basically, at 1024x762x32 with quincunx AA., my framerates are about the
same as I was getting in 1280x964x32 with no AA.
Now I am uncertain of which I like better,  higher resolutions with no AA or
lower resolutions with quincunx AA. At this moment I am leaning towards the
lower resolution with AA.

Don Burnette

Roger Squire

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Roger Squire » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 12:13:11

My AA question is what does it do to ingame text and menus?  I would think
AA would be of most use in slow moving games, but these are precisely the
ones that use alot of onscreen text.

rms

Don Burnett

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Don Burnett » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 12:33:04

I did not notice any difference in my on screen text to speak of.
But then again, my eyes ain't as young as they used to be :).

Don Burnette


> My AA question is what does it do to ingame text and menus?  I would think
> AA would be of most use in slow moving games, but these are precisely the
> ones that use alot of onscreen text.

> rms


Haqsa

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Haqsa » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 14:25:15

I just switched from a Radeon to a Ti4200, and I would have to agree
with you.  nVidia's image quality is quite good now, and in some games
it is even better than the Radeon was.



Julian Taylo

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Julian Taylo » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:57:16

I have an Athlon 1400 and Gainward Ti4200 and frame rates in F1 2002 at
1024x768 are only in the 30's most of the time - in fact drop into the 20's
at the start. Drivers are the Nvidia 28.32 ones...256 Mb DDR ram.
Wonder if its the difference in cpu, or video 4200 versus 4400 or something
else? Most graphics settings are on full - I think the 3d install came out
with 40 million thingies per second.
V sync disabled, no AA
havent checked, but even in practice - no way is it over 50. So how come you
get 90?

David Coo

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by David Coo » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 20:26:01

Thanks for the info Don!

David Coo

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by David Coo » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 20:31:14


From what I'm seeing CPU makes a HUGE difference.  I'm still running a 1Ghz
and the best score I can muster with 3DMark 2001SE is 5500 on my GeForce 3
Ti200 (XP Home).  Don got over 7000 on the same card with his OC'd Athon XP
1600...

- David Cook

Don Burnett

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Don Burnett » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 00:01:12

I don't know Julian, initially I would have thought you did not have Vsynch
disabled, but you clearly state you do.
My XP1600 is running at 140 mhz fsb (280) so it runs at 1.5 ghz. I wouldn't
think there would be that big a difference between my processor and yours,
nor between my 4400 and your 4200. The only other thing is I upped my ddr
ram from 512mb to 768 mb. I benchmarked with 3dmark 2001 before and after
adding the extra memory module, and it made no real difference.
You didn't state what operating system you have, if you have XP you may see
a benefit by adding another 256 mb of ram.

Don Burnette


> I have an Athlon 1400 and Gainward Ti4200 and frame rates in F1 2002 at
> 1024x768 are only in the 30's most of the time - in fact drop into the
20's
> at the start. Drivers are the Nvidia 28.32 ones...256 Mb DDR ram.
> Wonder if its the difference in cpu, or video 4200 versus 4400 or
something
> else? Most graphics settings are on full - I think the 3d install came out
> with 40 million thingies per second.
> V sync disabled, no AA
> havent checked, but even in practice - no way is it over 50. So how come
you
> get 90?


> > My base system:
> > Athon XP 1600+
> > Gainward Power Pack Ti4400 ( 128 mb)
> > EPoX 8KHA+ mb ( overclocked to 140 mhz fsb - 280 mhz ddr)
> > Windows XP Home

> > Ok, I had a Hercules GeForce 3 Ti200 in this system. Installed the new
> > Gainward GeForce 4 card this morning. The Herc card was not overclocked,
> and
> > I have not overclocked the Gainward card yet. I left all my settings the
> > same on the Gainward card to get a good comparison
> > 1280x1024x32 display
> > vsynch disabled in opengl and d3d
> > blend on the mimpapping
> > 29.42 official det drivers ( I did uninstall and reinstall)
> > No AA

> > 3d mark 2001 with Geforce 3 Ti200  - app 7150
> > 3d mark 2002 with GeForce 4 4400 - 9999 ( let's call it 10k) :)
> > I was pretty impressed, I really was expecting less of a difference,
like
> > upper 8k to lower 9k.

> > Ok, so that's just a benchmark, let's compare 2 of my most played games.

> > Nascar 2002 - running in opengl 1280x964x32 - testing at Michigan
> > GeForce 3 Ti200 - averaged mid 70 fps
> > GeForce 4 4400 - averaged around 140 fps
> > I was stunned, practically doubled my framerates here.

> > F12002 - running in d3d 1280x1024x32 - Practice at Hockenheim with full
> > field of ai
> > GeForce 3 Ti200 - averaged upper 50 fps
> > GeForce 4 4400 - averaged low 90's fps
> > ( note: when I reconfigured the 3d, it reset some textures to full, so
> > dispay was increased some)
> > Pretty darn significant performance increase.

> > That's all I have done so far, I figured this would be the best way to
> > compare apples to apples. Needless to say, I am very impressed
initially.
> I
> > truthfully did not think I would see that big a performance increase. I
am
> > very satisfied so far with my decision to upgrade.  I look foward to
> playing
> > around now with fsaa and overclocking this card, with the GeForce 3
Ti200
> it
> > would not overclock well at all, and running any fsaa would kill the
> > performance of it.

> > Did I really need the upgrade? Heck no, my games were certainly playable
> > with the previous card. But I sure am pleased with what I have, if you
are
> > running a similar system and have the extra money, then you too will
> > probably be pleased with the upgrade..
> > Gotta run do some errands with my daughter, I'll try to report more
later
> > tonight or tomorrow.

> > Don Burnette

Don Burnett

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Don Burnett » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 00:08:39

One other thing I thought of, my motherboard is the KT266A chipset running
ddr ram,  if your running an older mb with sdram that can make a big
difference as well..

Don Burnette


> I don't know Julian, initially I would have thought you did not have
Vsynch
> disabled, but you clearly state you do.
> My XP1600 is running at 140 mhz fsb (280) so it runs at 1.5 ghz. I
wouldn't
> think there would be that big a difference between my processor and yours,
> nor between my 4400 and your 4200. The only other thing is I upped my ddr
> ram from 512mb to 768 mb. I benchmarked with 3dmark 2001 before and after
> adding the extra memory module, and it made no real difference.
> You didn't state what operating system you have, if you have XP you may
see
> a benefit by adding another 256 mb of ram.

> Don Burnette



> > I have an Athlon 1400 and Gainward Ti4200 and frame rates in F1 2002 at
> > 1024x768 are only in the 30's most of the time - in fact drop into the
> 20's
> > at the start. Drivers are the Nvidia 28.32 ones...256 Mb DDR ram.
> > Wonder if its the difference in cpu, or video 4200 versus 4400 or
> something
> > else? Most graphics settings are on full - I think the 3d install came
out
> > with 40 million thingies per second.
> > V sync disabled, no AA
> > havent checked, but even in practice - no way is it over 50. So how come
> you
> > get 90?


> > > My base system:
> > > Athon XP 1600+
> > > Gainward Power Pack Ti4400 ( 128 mb)
> > > EPoX 8KHA+ mb ( overclocked to 140 mhz fsb - 280 mhz ddr)
> > > Windows XP Home

> > > Ok, I had a Hercules GeForce 3 Ti200 in this system. Installed the new
> > > Gainward GeForce 4 card this morning. The Herc card was not
overclocked,
> > and
> > > I have not overclocked the Gainward card yet. I left all my settings
the
> > > same on the Gainward card to get a good comparison
> > > 1280x1024x32 display
> > > vsynch disabled in opengl and d3d
> > > blend on the mimpapping
> > > 29.42 official det drivers ( I did uninstall and reinstall)
> > > No AA

> > > 3d mark 2001 with Geforce 3 Ti200  - app 7150
> > > 3d mark 2002 with GeForce 4 4400 - 9999 ( let's call it 10k) :)
> > > I was pretty impressed, I really was expecting less of a difference,
> like
> > > upper 8k to lower 9k.

> > > Ok, so that's just a benchmark, let's compare 2 of my most played
games.

> > > Nascar 2002 - running in opengl 1280x964x32 - testing at Michigan
> > > GeForce 3 Ti200 - averaged mid 70 fps
> > > GeForce 4 4400 - averaged around 140 fps
> > > I was stunned, practically doubled my framerates here.

> > > F12002 - running in d3d 1280x1024x32 - Practice at Hockenheim with
full
> > > field of ai
> > > GeForce 3 Ti200 - averaged upper 50 fps
> > > GeForce 4 4400 - averaged low 90's fps
> > > ( note: when I reconfigured the 3d, it reset some textures to full, so
> > > dispay was increased some)
> > > Pretty darn significant performance increase.

> > > That's all I have done so far, I figured this would be the best way to
> > > compare apples to apples. Needless to say, I am very impressed
> initially.
> > I
> > > truthfully did not think I would see that big a performance increase.
I
> am
> > > very satisfied so far with my decision to upgrade.  I look foward to
> > playing
> > > around now with fsaa and overclocking this card, with the GeForce 3
> Ti200
> > it
> > > would not overclock well at all, and running any fsaa would kill the
> > > performance of it.

> > > Did I really need the upgrade? Heck no, my games were certainly
playable
> > > with the previous card. But I sure am pleased with what I have, if you
> are
> > > running a similar system and have the extra money, then you too will
> > > probably be pleased with the upgrade..
> > > Gotta run do some errands with my daughter, I'll try to report more
> later
> > > tonight or tomorrow.

> > > Don Burnette

The Other Larr

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by The Other Larr » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 11:30:40

Thanks for the explanation!

-Larry




> > Who thought of that name?  Quincunx?  What does it stand for?

> > Sounds like someting Opie & Anthony would come up with...

> Quincunx is the scientific name of the geometric figure used by the the
> GeForce cards when calculating this type of AA -- an arrangement of dots
> just like on the 5-side of a normal 6-sided die.

> I have recently installed a GeForce 3 Ti200, and played around with the
> FSAA settings, but I must say I can't stand what Quincunx does to the
> legibility of text on screen (i.e., destroys it!). What good is racing
> without jaggies if you can't even tell what lap youre on?? :)

> --
> "Walk like a Syrian"

> Per Thulin

> Visit Jane The Hamster (and Pelhamina & Grenville) at

> http://w1.541.telia.com/~u54108168/

> (Spamblock in operation - remove "hamsters" in email address to reply by
> mail.)

Andre Warrin

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Andre Warrin » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 17:21:14

On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 17:34:04 GMT, "Don Burnette"


>My base system:
>Athon XP 1600+
>Gainward Power Pack Ti4400 ( 128 mb)
>EPoX 8KHA+ mb ( overclocked to 140 mhz fsb - 280 mhz ddr)
>Windows XP Home

Silly question of the day:

A while ago I had a P3 500mhz with a V3.
I upgraded my V3 to a GF2 GTS and fps in all my games -decreased-.
Someone told me my processor was not fast enough to handle the GF2, so
I upgraded to a P3 866. Then the GF2 really kicked in and I had a
dramatic increase in fps.

Now I want to upgrade my gfx card again with a GF4 4200, because I can
get it really cheap. But will my p3 866 be fast enough to see an
increase in fps with this card, or is my cpu too slow for a GF4?

Andre

Haqsa

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Haqsa » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 01:06:53

Depends on the game.   I just went from a Radeon (approx. GF2 speed) to
a Ti4200 on a 900 mhz system.  F1 2001 is definitely faster, and I can
push more detail too.  NR2002 is a bit faster, but not a huge amount.
F1 2002 is about the same as it was.  Older non-T&L games are all pretty
much unaffected, except in cases where the extra memory on the Ti4200
prevents texture swapping (e.g. Unreal Tournament is MUCH better than it
was with the Radeon).  Dungeon Siege is the same as it was.  Jedi
Outcast runs about the same, but again the extra memory prevents
slowdowns due to texture thrash.  All in all I feel it was a worthwhile
upgrade, especially since I plan on upgrading CPU, mobo, and RAM in a
few months and I know the performance will scale up well when I do that.
In the meantime I am enjoying being able to use full texture detail, 32
bit color, and Quincunx FSAA in racing games with no framerate penalty.


Andre Warring

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Andre Warring » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 07:51:49



Cheers.. I'll get the 4200 tomorrow :)

Andre

Haqsa

Initial impressions upgrading from GeForce3 Ti200 to GeForce 4 4400

by Haqsa » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 23:55:42

Hmm, I guess I gotta qualify that statement.  3D image quality is
definitely better than the Radeon, but it's still not as good in 2D.  I
just ran a few apps that do 2D charting and graphics, and text and fine
lines were much more clear on the Radeon.  Six of one, half a dozen of
the other - F1 2002 is nearly photo-realistic on the GF4, whereas on the
Radeon it looked flat and pixellated.  This was not just a matter of
detail level, the lighting simply wasn't as good with the Radeon.  But I
think the old advice still applies - if you want the best *** card,
go for the GF4, but if you want an all purpose card and don't mind
giving up a bit of speed in ***, the Radeon is still a better bet.  I
won't be returning the GF4, but in fairness I have to say the Radeon
still has the edge in 2D graphics.


> I just switched from a Radeon to a Ti4200, and I would have to agree
> with you.  nVidia's image quality is quite good now, and in some games
> it is even better than the Radeon was.



> > The 128MB RAM really made a difference in quality I believe.  Far
less
> > 'smudging' of graphics going on.  I _think_ mipmapping is what does
> this.
> > Whatever it is, it's a lot happier now :)

> > The improvement's in 2D quality really jumped out at me.  They have
> really
> > cleaned up the Analog signals on the GF4 cards, and I think it's
every
> bit
> > as good as ATI's now.


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