rec.autos.simulators

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

Marc J. Nelso

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Marc J. Nelso » Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the update, as well as putting to rest the rumor.  Looking
forward to this one!  =)

Cheers!

Marc


> Papyrus is currently planning on releasing the sequel to CART Racing
> sometime in 1999.  The as-yet-unnamed product will be based on the
> physics system that will debut in Grand Prix Legends.

> As always, I'm more than happy to do my best to confirm or deny any
> rumors that arise concerning Papyrus products. (although I obviously
> can't always comment on everything) I am just an email away.

> Mike Lescault
> Producer
> Papyrus/Sierra Sports

--


(please remove '_*_' when replying)

Sim Racing News - http://www.racesimcentral.net/
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SNAKE

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by SNAKE » Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Whew!!!! Great news. Now I can wear a belt, shave, and be trusted
in the same room with loaded firearms.
Jake Myers
Snake Racing
TSP
MIRacing
"If we all thought the same, nobody would think"

Ronald Stoe

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Ronald Stoe » Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> Papyrus is currently planning on releasing the sequel to CART Racing
> sometime in 1999.  The as-yet-unnamed product will be based on the
> physics system that will debut in Grand Prix Legends.

This is great!

I almost bought CPR a few days ago (they have it in the cheap bin in
Germany already), this shows how desperate I am for a CART sim... ;^)

Your adress went into my address book in a nano second...

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

William Dahm

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by William Dahm » Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> Papyrus is currently planning on releasing the sequel to CART Racing

woohoo!!!!!

we have to wait?doh!

-Homer S.

Marc J. Nelso

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Marc J. Nelso » Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Hi Byron,


>    You know, this just does not add up for me. If Papy's resources are
> limited then why would they spend the dollars on the CART License.
> Papy's resources dwindling????? LOL. I am begining to think this whole
> thing is just nonsense to be honest! I am not saying that Marc is
> pulling our leg, but I think somewhere up the info chain there is a
> little leg pulling going on.

According to what Mr. Lescault wrote, we may indeed have a new CART sim
under the tree in the future.  I would like to point out however, that
*sometime in 1999* is still a long way off, and Mike said *plans to*,
which doesn't translate to *we're currently working on it* (NASCAR Mgr.
comes to mind).

Also, obtaining licenses and internal resources (read: human talent)
have very little to do with one another, except that if you've only got
so much cash, then something may have to give; or perhaps the the
company can't afford to take a guy off one of the current teams
(designers), and then place him on another.

There's also the problem when you lose some key-talent, as in the case
of Papyrus, they've lost several over the past couple years, and may
not have had either the time, or the *resources* to hire *experienced*
personnel.

Don't mean to spoil the party...I'm just playin' Devil's Advocate.  =)

Cheers!

Marc
BTW, *leg_pulling* refers to when someone is giving false info (as in a
joke), in order to garner a desired response.  No leg pulling/nonsense
by me, or anyone else I've spoken to.

--


(please remove '_*_' when replying)

Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com
The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com

* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

Bruce Kennewe

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Bruce Kennewe » Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:00:00

ROFL!!!!!



--
Regards,
---
Bruce.

The Grand Prix Legends Historic Motor Racing Club:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Bruce Kennewe

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Bruce Kennewe » Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:00:00

The inhabitants of the entire Universe, including Tasmania, the Falkland
Islands and, to a lesser extent, Kentucky, all bow in the general
direction of Papyrus and chant three times, "Mike is Mighty!"

Note!
Your honorary knighthood, specially prepared by Her Majesty, Queen Bessie
of Buckinghuge Palace, is on its way via Air Express.


says...

--
Regards,
---
Bruce.

The Grand Prix Legends Historic Motor Racing Club:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Harald Boer

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Harald Boer » Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:00:00




> > Tell you what Papyrus, How about turning CART 3 into a "linux" project?
> > If you are short of resources, there are some cracker artists out here
> > in r.a.s. land .................

> You've made some pertinent points, Michael.
> Ten years ago the type of people who are involved in projects such as
> "The Sim Project" would have banded together, produced a racing
> simulation, found a publisher and, riding on the huge success of the end
> product, would have registered themselves as "Papyrus."

> Ironic, isn't it?

Developing a sim from scratch cannot be compared with enhancing an already
existingsim, altough I respect Michael for making the best AI for NASCAR2!
Even the The Touring Car project from the Pits is nothing more then replacing
some pcx and soundfiles. Changing the physics model is a different story, and
that's where the real talented people like David Kaemner and Geoff Crammond
jump in and leave the rest of the simracing world a long way behind.

Regards,

Harald

Dave Cas

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Dave Cas » Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:00:00

You should be taken out and shot.  How could you even consider such a thing?  
Why I'd give up sim racing altogether before I would resort to such a drastic
step.  Hell, I'd go back to Pole Position before CPR.

:o)

Dave

http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/4340

Michael E. Carve

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Michael E. Carve » Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:00:00


% According to what Mr. Lescault wrote, we may indeed have a new CART sim
% under the tree in the future.  I would like to point out however, that
% *sometime in 1999* is still a long way off, and Mike said *plans to*,
% which doesn't translate to *we're currently working on it* (NASCAR Mgr.
% comes to mind).

Marc, I thought this was the "time-line" along for CART.  Let's see they
have GPL, Reno Air, and NASCAR3 to get done...  Then they will move on
to CART.  With the projects in the hopper, 1999 only makes sense.  My
wild guess is 3rd Quarter 1999.  By then their new sim engine should be
finely tuned and honed and David will be able to produce a CART sim that
is getting ever closer to his ideal racing simulation.  Maybe in between
they can continue with the Air racing sim and release a Hot-Air Balloon
racing sim! ;~)

% There's also the problem when you lose some key-talent, as in the case
% of Papyrus, they've lost several over the past couple years, and may
% not have had either the time, or the *resources* to hire *experienced*
% personnel.

This could be the biggest problem for them.  The better their products
the more the competition will bid to lure Papy's team away.

% Don't mean to spoil the party...I'm just playin' Devil's Advocate.  =)

An apology for the Devil-it must be remembered that we have only heard
one side of the case. God has written all the books. Samuel Butler
(1835-1902), English author. Notebooks, "Higgledy-Piggledy" (1912).

The devil is an optimist if he thinks he can make people worse than they
are. Karl Kraus (1874-1936), Austrian satirist. Die Fackel, no. 277/78
(Vienna, 31 March 1909; repr. in Thomas Szasz, Anti-Freud: Karl Kraus's
Criticism of Psychoanalysis and Psychiatry, ch. 8, 1976).

Needs must, when the devil drives!  (unknown)

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Michael E. Carve

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Michael E. Carve » Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:00:00


% Developing a sim from scratch cannot be compared with enhancing an already
% existingsim, altough I respect Michael for making the best AI for NASCAR2!
% Even the The Touring Car project from the Pits is nothing more then replacing
% some pcx and soundfiles. Changing the physics model is a different story, and
% that's where the real talented people like David Kaemner and Geoff Crammond
% jump in and leave the rest of the simracing world a long way behind.

Wholeheartedly agree.  If it weren't for both David and Geoff, I highly
doubt we would be seeing the quality of racing sims slowly, but surely,
increase.  Even CPR must be applauded for attempting to reach this level
of excellence.  And Papyrus's new physics model (along with it's
client/server modelling) should raise that bar even higher.  Geoff may
need to rethink his "evolution" of GP3 as Papyrus seems to have
transformed their product into a new life form that will start evolving
2 or 3 levels above any current racing sim creature.

But, if Papyrus ever needs some people to do some of the "grunt work",
art, testing, "tweaking" and "smoothing" the rough edges, there are
plenty of talented folks out there that would be more than happy to
dedicate some time to the effort.  You must realize that these talented
folks (on the most part) developed this knowledge and skill without any
access to the confidential coding routines.  Besides, this would allow
Papy to concentrate more of their resources on the dynamics of their
engine.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Ronald Stoe

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Ronald Stoe » Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> >I almost bought CPR a few days ago (they have it in the cheap bin in
> >Germany already), this shows how desperate I am for a CART sim... ;^)

> You should be taken out and shot.  How could you even consider such a thing?
> Why I'd give up sim racing altogether before I would resort to such a drastic
> step.  Hell, I'd go back to Pole Position before CPR.

> :o)

Well, I'd expected harsh reactions to my evil temptation, but getting
shot is a bit tough... You're a member of the NRA? ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Goy Larse

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Goy Larse » Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> Thank goodness.  Mike, you just saved this ng several millions of dollars in
> Prozac!

> Now that the conjecture is over, who's going to be the first to moan about how
> loooooooong the wait is going to be?

> Kurt

Not me, just knowing that they are going to put that license into good
use is enough for me, yeah right :-)

Thx Mike

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
UncleGoy on TEN

Jim Sokolof

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by Jim Sokolof » Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> This sucks as much as the license Sega had on Daytona. Even more,
> because
> they at least used their license (although on a stupid arcade racer),
> while
> Papy puts it in the drawer?!

It's only a shaft to the consumer if it's an _exclusive_ license that
they choose not to use. I didn't think Papy's Cart license was an
exclusive deal. If it's not exclusive, then all they did was pay some
money for something they don't end up using. Nothing prevents someone
else from securing a license and delivering a product anymore than if
Papy did nothing.

If it is exclusive and they elect not to use it, I suspect that Cart
will have some right of recision in fairly short order (assuming their
lawyers weren't incompetents; given the amount of *recent* experience
their lawyers have received, I'd imagine them to be fairly
"current"... :-) )

---Jim

DPHI

** Papyrus CART Rumors **

by DPHI » Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:00:00


>> <BR>
>> Thank goodness.  Mike, you just saved this ng several millions of dollars
>in<BR>
>> Prozac!<BR>
>><BR>
>> Now that the conjecture is over, who's going to be the first to moan about
>how<BR>
>> loooooooong the wait is going to be?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Kurt<BR>
><BR>
>Not me, just knowing that they are going to put that license into good<BR>
>use is enough for me, yeah right :-)<BR>
><BR>
>Thx Mike<BR>
><BR>
>Beers and cheers<BR>
>(uncle) Goy<BR>
>UncleGoy on TEN<BR>
></HTML>

I think I can wait, jeez we've got F1RS, ICR2/CART,N2,TOCA and soon to
come,GPL, and to top it all off, there are now CART tracks and carsets
available for GP2. Who's got time for all this racin'!

Don
(patiently  waiting to lap Elkhart Lake in Mikey's Swift...)


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