rec.autos.simulators

For reasons I can not explain in detail, I would like to have your
opinion and input in a project of mine. I would need to figure out
six*** points or aspects that define a good formula 1 racing sim. Yes,
modern formula 1 racing sim only. Although certainly most of the aspects
would be identical to all racing sims in general.

The idea is to have six*** different aspects that would be at least
roughly equal in importance when the whole bunch of 16 is compared to
each other. As we're talking about simulations here, it obviously means
that different aspects of the actual "realism" need to be listed as
separate.

After thinking for a while I came up with these:

REALISM
1. Driving model (i.e. how accurately and dynamically the car responds -
the driving "feel")
2. Other physics modelling ("extras", such as taking tyre wear, tyre
temperature, car weight, track condition and temperature, etc into
account)
3. Damage modelling (self-explanatory, includes variable reliability)
4. Track modelling (not the physics under 2, rather, how well the tracks
are modelled to represent the real ones with all the bumps and contours)
5. Adherence to F1 rules (working flag rules, little tidbits such as
safety cars, etc)
6. Weather (self-explanatory)
7. Game car performance vs. reality (i.e. is McLaren better than
Minardi?)
8. AI performance (i.e. do the other drivers perform and behave credibly
according to their real world performance for suspension of disbelief,
and maybe have different personalities as well)
9. Car setups (how close they are to the real thing, and how easy they
are to understand in the particular game)

GRAPHICS
10. Overall graphics appearance
11. Graphics engine performance

OTHER
12. Uh... force feedback
13. Er...

You see, I am having trouble here dividing "what makes a good F1
simulator" into 16 different aspects. No more, no less. The idea here is
to balance the thing so that if you gave GP points for each of the
aspects when comparing different sims, you would get a reasonable
comparison between them as F1 simulation games.

I would be extremely grateful for ANY input, advice, hints, insights,
etc on how I could either add some aspects or break the ones I already
mentioned into two or more to get six***. Unfortunately, I cannot offer
anything more than my gratitude in return. Unless you live in Helsinki
metropolitan area, Finland, in which case I'll buy you a beer if you can
help me out :-)

Thanks.

-lark-

(posted, but not crossposted both to RASF1 and RAS)

I think you hit the major points, especially in regard to simulation aspects.  
If you are willing to widen your perspective, I'd suggest adding some game
aspects, ie playability.  Such a category could include:

Tunability: ability to detune the AI and/or physics to allow a player to
progress.  That is, simple and advanced models.  Afterall, if the fidelity was
very very high, we'd all fail miserably :-)

Interface: usability, simplicity.

Modifiability: ability to modify/upgrade the teams/cars/drivers/tracks for
instance to other years.

Or instead, for a true sim of modern F1: a tyranical interface, call it
"Bernie", that forces you to do it its way only.

Oh, let's not forget:
Disqualifications, with politically-induced reinstatements
Bickering and backstabbing primadonna drivers and owners
Random rule changes and enforcements
Little-to-no passing (except in the ever-exciting pitstops)
F1 babes

Thanks! Nothing like fresh input when you're stuck thinking in circles.
After some more replies I think I can get a reasonably fair and balanced
set of comparisons together in no time.

LOL! THESE would be the stuff for the PERFECT F1 racing sim.
Unfortunately, I am limited to aspects that are already covered in at
least some of the published sims.

-lark-

-multiplayer performance
-controller set-up (flexibility: wheel lock, deadzone, linearity etc.)
-menu navigation
-driving aids (abs, traction control etc.)
-ease of editing (cars,tracks, objects etc.)
-performance analysis (telemetry)
-replay quality (include ability to export)

oops, we're way beyond 16.  probably missed a couple.  -Keith

For example, you can say that it should be as close to realism as
possible, but the mainstream gamer wouldn't like it. So, IMO you
should first tell us what the target audience is for this F1 sim...

Remco

Jan.
=---

I'm supposed to compare the available F1 racing sims from the simulator
aspect. That is, realism and the ability to provide an accurate
simulated experience of being an F1 driver is the most important point
here. Accessibility and overall playability is definitely a bonus. But
only a bonus. That's why I stressed the realism part so much in my own
first draft.

And I'm not trying to hunt for the characteristics of the best possible
F1 simulator here. As in what would make up the F1 sim of your dreams.
I'm trying to figure out a set of characteristics to compare the
existing ones at least somewhat fairly. So I work for a computer games
magazine, not for a game company starting an F1 sim project :)

But from the sim freaks point of view, yes.

-lark-

Ah, ok.

1. Well, first, since it's a driving sim, the physics should be
convincing.

2. It's existing in real life, so the tracks much represent real life
aswell.

3. As driver you must be able to make the same mistakes as in real
life, damaging your car/engine, stalling the engine ot get stuck in
the bunker.

4. The track conditions when dry should contain slippery grass, dirt
and marbles on the track.

5. Dynamic weather.

6. Graphical representation of this all. Granted, it's subjective.

7. Same for the sound.

8. The FIA rule set, including being suspended sue to bad behaviour on
the track. Flags, pace car, limited tyres, etc.

9. The AI should represent the real drivers, with all their habits.

10. The car setup. You need telemetry, and a raceengineer who'll set
your car up, after you explained the car behaviour. This all
(optional) in real time.

11. TV coverage, Data  channel, pit monitor, being in the pitbox when
pitcrew is adjusting the setup. Linked to the replay feature.

12. Cars should have real life performance. The player should earn a
ride for a faster team. (or be sacked....) If you want it close to
reality, certain teams should have greater risc of mechanical failure.
It could be refreshing to play Mr Herbert in  the 2000 season....

13. Feedback. Can be done by FF wheel, virtual***pit, sound, etc.

14. Pit strategy. Voice recognition would be nice when implemented in
a pit <-> car communication. Animated pitcrew would be nice.

15. Ambient sounds/animation, like audience, moving trees.

16. Car development during the season.

I'm not sure if Multiplayer fits in there.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

I consider multiplayer racing over the internet a great feature with as many
drivers as possible. Racing against the AI is a toy. Racing against people
is a real competition. Racing against foreign nationals over the internet
and we have something which is almost better than real life Formula 1.

Sound: How accurately the sim recreates the in-car sounds, and other
sounds, background sounds, opponents car sounds, etc.

Car set-ups: The ability to alter the cars set-up, and how it effects
the car?

Pit stops: The ability to schedule pitstops at pre-determined times, and
the ability to repair the car, adjust wings, etc (manual or automatic
pit-stops?) add fuel, etc.
+

Management/tactics: The ability to make tactical decisions regarding the
race, letting team mates through, changing from 2 pitstops to 1 pitstop,
changing tyres if the weather changes mid race, etc. Buying and
upgrading drivers, cars, car parts, carrying out research, testing, etc.

Modes: The actual choice of racing *modes*: EG: time trials, single
race, practice sessions, qualifying sessions, full season championship,
etc.

8-)

*Peter* -  http://www.racesimcentral.net/~peterpc/home.html

After drive model and physics and strategy and bumps and marbles and rocks
and candy wrappers and failures and track accuracy and everything else:

 Then graphics. Perspective is very important. Situational awareness is
paramount to racing, especially since we're all online now. How fast am I
going? How fast is he going? How far away is that corner? How close am I to
that rail? Is he inside me now? Will I chop his nose off? He's gonna chop my
nose off?!!!  Overall I would like to see a view about 60% wider than GPL's.
So, GPL view *plus* both side views. Make yourself a little JPG of that at
Portier at turn in. You'll love it. Racing in real life will help sort out
what a good perspective is. Spend 10 hours on a local track or favorite road
over the weekend, then go home to play all your sims on Sunday night. It
should become apparent very quickly that Kaemmer sims have extremely poor
perspective and Crammond sims have really good perspective. Other goodies
would include CPR and SCGT. What the key is I could not say.

Now the really important thing. Sound. Exactly 50% of the feedback comes
from the sound. FF aint done yet. No matter what the owners may say. It's
more confusing than it is helpful on the good software, and on the bad
software.... well. So, since we can't rely on visual alone to tell what the
car is doing, sound is our saving grace. I have a gazillion ideas on how to
implement sound in sims and will spare you that here. Suffice it to say that
the sound should increase overall awareness of speed, engine speed,
traction, position on the track, and anything else you can squeeze out of
it. If you turn the sound off and drive just as well then it aint workin'.
Feel, feel, feel. Have to feel the car. Like in GPL. Sound could go a long
way towards that feel.

--
Mark Jeangerard
www.soundchaserweb.com
New Mexico, USA