rec.autos.simulators

by **The Mighty Puc** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

(Day 4)

Thanks to everyone here for their helpful advice. I suspect it will be a
while before I "get" it :-)

Tried to hook up my CH Pro Pedals but no luck. I don't know much about
controllers and I've never had the CH's set up before. I wonder if I need to
install some software? Anyway I'm still with my LWFF pedals.

Today was a bit of a step backwards. I keep trying to keep on the throttle
until brakepoint for big bend. CRASH CRASH CRASH. I'm tracking better around
the Loop but still not able to enter the turn at near the speed I should be
at (a good exit has me shifting to fourth just past the spectators on the
left). The esses are trouble. If I try to get through them FAST it is a
fifty fifty proposition. Likewise, trying to keep the line through the 90 is
tough as well. GRRRRRR. Best lap today 1:12.70 almost half a sec off my PB
and less consistent as well. I figured it would be a quick trip down to
around 1:10 and then a hellish push to 1:06. I'm wondering if I should
stick to the Glen until I "get it" or if I should move on to Monza. Also: I
don't know if this is a good or bad thing but this game has cut into my
drinking. I used to have a***tail when I came home from work. Now I don't
want any booze in me as I try to learn how to drive. Maybe I'm just saving
it all up for when I beat 1:10. I can't wait for the hangover.

Christian Hansen

by **Sid Chappl** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

After reading your previous post i don't know whether the Brab is a good car
to learn in. It is quite a light torquey car and hard to master, the Ferrari
may be a better option for you and use Alison's setups for it as they are
very forgiving. Best of luck.
Sid.

by **Kevin Caldwel** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Watkins Glen is a hard track, because of the camber in the middle of the
road. Depending when you cross the crown, it can upset the car during
braking very badly. Monza is a much easier track to learn on.

The Brab is also not the most forgiving car. The Cooper or Ferrari would
be much better choices. Alison Hine's set-ups are excellent, except you
may want a little more rear brake bias until you master trail braking
like Alison.

Moving on to a different track and car might seem like a set-back now,
but banging your head against a wall probably is more frustrating in the
long run. Take a break from the Glen. All the time on that track is in
the esses....

Kevin Caldwell

> (Day 4)

> Thanks to everyone here for their helpful advice. I suspect it will be a
> while before I "get" it :-)

> Tried to hook up my CH Pro Pedals but no luck. I don't know much about
> controllers and I've never had the CH's set up before. I wonder if I need to
> install some software? Anyway I'm still with my LWFF pedals.

> Today was a bit of a step backwards. I keep trying to keep on the throttle
> until brakepoint for big bend. CRASH CRASH CRASH. I'm tracking better around

> Christian Hansen

by **Mats Lofkvis** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

[snip]
[snip]

Imo, keeping full throttle as far as possible and then slamming the
brakes as hard as possible is a very bad idea, especially at tricky
places as the big bend, and for two reasons:

- The smallest error will upset the car enough to throw you off the track.

- You don't actually gain any time from it.

The reason for #2 is that it is much more important to end up
with the correct speed after the breaking is done than it is
to brake as late/hard as possible. If you put higher priority
on breaking late than on entering the corner at the correct
line and with the correct speed, your times will suffer.

The time lost from easing off the throttle slightly before breaking
to keep the car stable is also usually miniscule compared to the
time lost from a slightly wrong corner entrance. What is important
here is that you need only a small reduction of speed just before
breaking and only a slightly less agressive application of the breakes
to keep the car stable.

Note also that giving up trying to break late and hard does _not_
mean you should break early and hard, since doing that will either
make you way to slow into the corner (if you stay on the brakes
until the turn in point) or at least make you go at corner speed
for to long (if you stop breaking when at the correct speed for
the corner). What you should do is to stabilize the car by going
off the throttle and on the brakes early, but adjust the amount
of breaking so that you arrive with the correct speed at the
turn in point and with as much of the hard breaking as late
as possible.

My experience is that it is way to easy to underestimate the standard
rule that line is most important, exit speed is second most important
and breaking is third. Even though I _know_ the rule, I always find
myself breaking it one way or another. I wander off the line while
trying to improve the exit speed. I wander off the line while trying
to brake later. I hurt my exit speed while trying to brake later.

It is not enough to practice the line until you get it and then move
on to exit speed etc. You have to _keep_ the line while improving
the exit speed. You have to _keep_ the line _and_ the exit speed
while improving the breaking. THAT is the hard part :-)

_
Mats Lofkvist

by **The Mighty Puc** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Well, I stayed up late last night and actually improved. 1:11:52 in the
Brab. I then tried the Lotus and after a couple misfires clocked a few 12's
and then my new PB 1:11:11. After hearing all the scary stuff about the
Lotus I was surprised. I started making better entries into the Loop. It
takes quite a bit of experience to get the correct perception of speed so
you don't under or over brake going into a corner. Anyway I'm still
improving so YIPEE.

Christian Hansen

> I would have to agree strongly with that opinion. When I first got GPL I
> decided to go with the Brabham and found it to be a real handful because
> of the massive amount of torque and also because of the short wheelbase.
> Maybe it's just me, but I found that even the Lotus was easier to drive
> than that little beast. Now, it's a lot of fun but IMHO, the Brabham is
> the most difficult car to learn with.

> > After reading your previous post i don't know whether the Brab is a good
car
> > to learn in. It is quite a light torquey car and hard to master, the
Ferrari
> > may be a better option for you and use Alison's setups for it as they
are
> > very forgiving. Best of luck.
> > Sid.

> > > (Day 4)

> > > Thanks to everyone here for their helpful advice. I suspect it will be
a
> > > while before I "get" it :-)

> > > Tried to hook up my CH Pro Pedals but no luck. I don't know much about
> > > controllers and I've never had the CH's set up before. I wonder if I
need
> > to
> > > install some software? Anyway I'm still with my LWFF pedals.

> > > Today was a bit of a step backwards. I keep trying to keep on the
throttle
> > > until brakepoint for big bend. CRASH CRASH CRASH. I'm tracking better
> > around
> > > the Loop but still not able to enter the turn at near the speed I
should
> > be
> > > at (a good exit has me shifting to fourth just past the spectators on
the
> > > left). The esses are trouble. If I try to get through them FAST it is
a
> > > fifty fifty proposition. Likewise, trying to keep the line through the
90
> > is
> > > tough as well. GRRRRRR. Best lap today 1:12.70 almost half a sec off
my
> > PB
> > > and less consistent as well. I figured it would be a quick trip down
to
> > > around 1:10 and then a hellish push to 1:06. I'm wondering if I
should
> > > stick to the Glen until I "get it" or if I should move on to Monza.
Also:
> > I
> > > don't know if this is a good or bad thing but this game has cut into
my
> > > drinking. I used to have a***tail when I came home from work. Now I
> > don't
> > > want any booze in me as I try to learn how to drive. Maybe I'm just
> > saving
> > > it all up for when I beat 1:10. I can't wait for the hangover.

> > > Christian Hansen

by **The Mighty Puc** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Thank you for the advice. So far I find you are absolutely correct. My lap
times actually improve if I lift a bit early to settle the car before
braking. Right now I just straight line brake and then feather the throttle
to the apex. Once I figure out how to get my computer to recognize my CH
pedals I'll start trying to learn to trail brake (and left foot brake).

Christian Hansen

> [snip]
> > Today was a bit of a step backwards. I keep trying to keep on the
throttle
> > until brakepoint for big bend. CRASH CRASH CRASH
> [snip]

> Imo, keeping full throttle as far as possible and then slamming the
> brakes as hard as possible is a very bad idea, especially at tricky
> places as the big bend, and for two reasons:

> - The smallest error will upset the car enough to throw you off the track.

> - You don't actually gain any time from it.

> The reason for #2 is that it is much more important to end up
> with the correct speed after the breaking is done than it is
> to brake as late/hard as possible. If you put higher priority
> on breaking late than on entering the corner at the correct
> line and with the correct speed, your times will suffer.

> The time lost from easing off the throttle slightly before breaking
> to keep the car stable is also usually miniscule compared to the
> time lost from a slightly wrong corner entrance. What is important
> here is that you need only a small reduction of speed just before
> breaking and only a slightly less agressive application of the breakes
> to keep the car stable.

> Note also that giving up trying to break late and hard does _not_
> mean you should break early and hard, since doing that will either
> make you way to slow into the corner (if you stay on the brakes
> until the turn in point) or at least make you go at corner speed
> for to long (if you stop breaking when at the correct speed for
> the corner). What you should do is to stabilize the car by going
> off the throttle and on the brakes early, but adjust the amount
> of breaking so that you arrive with the correct speed at the
> turn in point and with as much of the hard breaking as late
> as possible.

> My experience is that it is way to easy to underestimate the standard
> rule that line is most important, exit speed is second most important
> and breaking is third. Even though I _know_ the rule, I always find
> myself breaking it one way or another. I wander off the line while
> trying to improve the exit speed. I wander off the line while trying
> to brake later. I hurt my exit speed while trying to brake later.

> It is not enough to practice the line until you get it and then move
> on to exit speed etc. You have to _keep_ the line while improving
> the exit speed. You have to _keep_ the line _and_ the exit speed
> while improving the breaking. THAT is the hard part :-)

> _
> Mats Lofkvist

by **David Ewin** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

> Tried to hook up my CH Pro Pedals but no luck. I don't know much about
> controllers and I've never had the CH's set up before. I wonder if I need to
> install some software? Anyway I'm still with my LWFF pedals.

You need to go to the Game Controllers applet (Start->Settings->Control
Panel->Game Controllers) and add it, which will install the drivers, etc. From
there you also can calibrate it and test it. Did you do this?

Dave Ewing

--
*****************************************************
David A. Ewing

*****************************************************

by **Liutger Franze** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

how true!! I allways feared the ring - could not finish a lap because I
got so frustrated. and then I had to learn it, because I had to race it
in the GGPLC.

this tracks teaches you one of the most important things in racing:
patience. it is a wonderful fealing to complete a lap at the ring
without spinning just by being patient and cautious.

Lio

by **Wozm** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Just my .02 as believe me I am no star (pb at monza 1:29:86 ferrari after 6
weeks on the sim) but IMHO too much emphasis is placed on line, braking, exit
speed before what I consider important. A GOOD STARTING SETUP.
The first thing I do is get some laps in (dont have to be scorching) get the
tires flat on the ground and loosen the car up (just my preference) and most
important to me -
GET THE CAR TO STOP IN A STRAIGHT LINE -
Once I have these things squared away I can start pushing my limits. Braking
points and line become easier to recognize when you can brake straight and
hard, without things getting hectic. Although I am probably in the minority,
thats the way I approach it.
again, just my humble but honest opinion.
Michael Loos

by **Andrew MacPhers** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Want a serious suggestion? Go learn the Nurburgring! After I spent a few
days there the other tracks started to feel *so* much easier.

As for WG... I spent weeks and weeks trying to get below 1:10 and failed.
One day I sneaked in a 9'58" and from then on my times slowly headed
towards 1:06 (on a good day :-).

This is in the Lotus default setup. I like driving other cars but I find
the Lotus easiest to drive fast. The Coventry's a nice car, but slow
unless you're one of the GPL supermen :-)

Andrew McP

by **Liutger Franze** » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

IMHO the standard setups that come with GPL 1.2 or the ones from Alison
Hine meet the premises.

Lio

by **Stephen Colbourn** » Sun, 06 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Go straight for the Lotus. It is unreliable and you are going to blow the
engine, but I disagree with it being classed as hard to drive. I really like
Dougs soft setup and think this is a good setup to learn with rather than
the top hotlapers which I find near impossible.
The advantage then is when racing online you will have the most competitive
car right from the start.

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by **Andrew Rembe** » Sun, 06 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I would have to agree strongly with that opinion. When I first got GPL I
decided to go with the Brabham and found it to be a real handful because
of the massive amount of torque and also because of the short wheelbase.
Maybe it's just me, but I found that even the Lotus was easier to drive
than that little beast. Now, it's a lot of fun but IMHO, the Brabham is
the most difficult car to learn with.

> After reading your previous post i don't know whether the Brab is a good car
> to learn in. It is quite a light torquey car and hard to master, the Ferrari
> may be a better option for you and use Alison's setups for it as they are
> very forgiving. Best of luck.
> Sid.

> > (Day 4)

> > Thanks to everyone here for their helpful advice. I suspect it will be a
> > while before I "get" it :-)

> > Tried to hook up my CH Pro Pedals but no luck. I don't know much about
> > controllers and I've never had the CH's set up before. I wonder if I need
> to
> > install some software? Anyway I'm still with my LWFF pedals.

> > Today was a bit of a step backwards. I keep trying to keep on the throttle
> > until brakepoint for big bend. CRASH CRASH CRASH. I'm tracking better
> around
> > the Loop but still not able to enter the turn at near the speed I should
> be
> > at (a good exit has me shifting to fourth just past the spectators on the
> > left). The esses are trouble. If I try to get through them FAST it is a
> > fifty fifty proposition. Likewise, trying to keep the line through the 90
> is
> > tough as well. GRRRRRR. Best lap today 1:12.70 almost half a sec off my
> PB
> > and less consistent as well. I figured it would be a quick trip down to
> > around 1:10 and then a hellish push to 1:06. I'm wondering if I should
> > stick to the Glen until I "get it" or if I should move on to Monza. Also:
> I
> > don't know if this is a good or bad thing but this game has cut into my
> > drinking. I used to have a***tail when I came home from work. Now I
> don't
> > want any booze in me as I try to learn how to drive. Maybe I'm just
> saving
> > it all up for when I beat 1:10. I can't wait for the hangover.

> > Christian Hansen

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 06 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Funnily enough, the Ferrari 312 actually has the shortest wheelbase of al
the cars represented in GPL :-)

The GPL Brabham, when its setup is tailored to suit the individual, is
actually a delightful, yet still very fast, car to "drive".

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> I would have to agree strongly with that opinion. When I first got GPL I
> decided to go with the Brabham and found it to be a real handful because
> of the massive amount of torque and also because of the short wheelbase.
> Maybe it's just me, but I found that even the Lotus was easier to drive
> than that little beast. Now, it's a lot of fun but IMHO, the Brabham is
> the most difficult car to learn with.

> > After reading your previous post i don't know whether the Brab is a good
car
> > to learn in. It is quite a light torquey car and hard to master, the
Ferrari
> > may be a better option for you and use Alison's setups for it as they
are
> > very forgiving. Best of luck.
> > Sid.

> > > (Day 4)

> > > Thanks to everyone here for their helpful advice. I suspect it will be
a
> > > while before I "get" it :-)

> > > Tried to hook up my CH Pro Pedals but no luck. I don't know much about
> > > controllers and I've never had the CH's set up before. I wonder if I
need
> > to
> > > install some software? Anyway I'm still with my LWFF pedals.

> > > Today was a bit of a step backwards. I keep trying to keep on the
throttle
> > > until brakepoint for big bend. CRASH CRASH CRASH. I'm tracking better
> > around
> > > the Loop but still not able to enter the turn at near the speed I
should
> > be
> > > at (a good exit has me shifting to fourth just past the spectators on
the
> > > left). The esses are trouble. If I try to get through them FAST it is
a
> > > fifty fifty proposition. Likewise, trying to keep the line through the
90
> > is
> > > tough as well. GRRRRRR. Best lap today 1:12.70 almost half a sec off
my
> > PB
> > > and less consistent as well. I figured it would be a quick trip down
to
> > > around 1:10 and then a hellish push to 1:06. I'm wondering if I
should
> > > stick to the Glen until I "get it" or if I should move on to Monza.
Also:
> > I
> > > don't know if this is a good or bad thing but this game has cut into
my
> > > drinking. I used to have a***tail when I came home from work. Now I
> > don't
> > > want any booze in me as I try to learn how to drive. Maybe I'm just
> > saving
> > > it all up for when I beat 1:10. I can't wait for the hangover.

> > > Christian Hansen

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by **David** » Sun, 06 Feb 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 05:22:19 GMT, "The Mighty Puck"

Oh, not Monza, please! OK, it's simple to remember, but it just isn't
any *fun* to practise on. There's a nice long straight for
slipstreaming, but that's no use if you're driving on your own.

I'm amazed that so few people learn on Spa. I started out there, in
the Eagle (very well suited to the place), with the default setups
(but only 6 laps of fuel), and got going before too long at all. It's
a lovely track - very fast and sweeping, with some exhilarating
corners, but with an easy-to-remember layout. And you really get to
know what gradients can do, too.

3:30 is a good target to start with here - it's really not as hard as
you think at first. Once you get a decent rhythm going, you can spend
the entire lap worrying about Masta - it *is* possible to do it at
180mph, but not by ordinary mortals like me.

Silverstone is another unfashionable track, but I like it. I'm
British, of course, which helps, but the best parts are the long
sweeping final corner (Woodcote), and the fourth gear, four-wheel
drift through Maggots - fantastic if you get it right, right onto the
grass if you don't.

Try breaking 1:35 to start with - the Lotus is best here (I know
people say it's not a beginner's car, but it was for me. It depends on
what 'feel' you like - try them all!)

And when you feel ready for the AI, both these tracks (especially
Silverstone) make for wonderful racing.
--
David.
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

rec.autos.simulators

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