rec.autos.simulators

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

Paul Jage

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

by Paul Jage » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:53:57

I wondered whether anyone else is experiencing the same thing I am; some of
the track graphics in F12001 'shimmer'. I can not think of any better way of
describing it than this. I have
a) tried different refresh rates for my Llayami 21' monitor (have upto date
drivers, not the generic Windows ones)
b) a variety of graphics cards drivers (Geforce 2 Ultra 64mb) from 6.50
right upto 23.11 (use 1024 res at 16 bit colour, but higher res also have
similar 'shimmering' problem)
c) played around with GeforceTweak
d) tried different graphics settings within game, although with my rig I
wouldn't of thought that the machine would be having a problem; Athlon 1.4,
256mb ram, Geforce 2 Ultra, SB Live, Act Labs Wheel/pedals (force feedback
not activated)
As an aside, when I click on icons within the game, the icon sound has a
long reverberation sound to it. Is this normal?
Any advice appreciated, as games like GPL and Nascar 4 work so well on my
computer, and I'd love F12001 to the same.
Thanks
PJ
Leo Landma

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

by Leo Landma » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:07:10



I have that too, on a GF3 video card. Oh well, back to GPL...

Bye,
Leo

Ian Bel

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

by Ian Bel » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:16:19

The 'shimmer' is due to some Z buffer issues that are really only resolved
by moving to 32 bit. and this will impact the framerates quite badly, you
GF3 guys should be ok though.

Ian
www.simbin.com




> > I wondered whether anyone else is experiencing the same thing I am; some
> of
> > the track graphics in F12001 'shimmer'.

> I have that too, on a GF3 video card. Oh well, back to GPL...

> Bye,
> Leo

Simon Brow

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

by Simon Brow » Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:26:01

Actually, it's not a z-buffer issue at all.  There is a z-buffer problem
with F12001, but it doesn't make the tracks shimmer, it makes distant
objects get draw in the wrong order, so you'll see the inside of a tyre draw
over the outside.

The shimmering is because ISI have played around with the mip-map LOD bias
setting in D3D to get a sharper image.  This is probably in response to the
criticism F1 2000 got over it's 'blurry' tracks.  Anyway, ISI have changed
the LOD bias which changes the distances at which D3D switches to the
smaller textures.  Each of these distance have been moved closer to the
screen, so the game is using textures that are too big for the particular
distance, hence you get a shimmer around mip-map boundaries.

If ISI had programmed support for Anisotropic filtering, it wouldn't have
been necessary for them to manipulate the LOD bias this way.  Also if they
had programmed support for W-Buffering, the 16-bit z-buffer problem would
not be there.

You could use RivaTuner to put the LOD bias back the other way, then force
anisotropic filtering on, and that should remove the problem.

Personally, once I'm into a race I hardly notice the shimmer.


The Other Larr

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

by The Other Larr » Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:51:36

Ya can't help but loving a post like this.

Thanks!

-Larry


> Actually, it's not a z-buffer issue at all.  There is a z-buffer problem
> with F12001, but it doesn't make the tracks shimmer, it makes distant
> objects get draw in the wrong order, so you'll see the inside of a tyre
draw
> over the outside.

> The shimmering is because ISI have played around with the mip-map LOD bias
> setting in D3D to get a sharper image.  This is probably in response to
the
> criticism F1 2000 got over it's 'blurry' tracks.  Anyway, ISI have changed
> the LOD bias which changes the distances at which D3D switches to the
> smaller textures.  Each of these distance have been moved closer to the
> screen, so the game is using textures that are too big for the particular
> distance, hence you get a shimmer around mip-map boundaries.

> If ISI had programmed support for Anisotropic filtering, it wouldn't have
> been necessary for them to manipulate the LOD bias this way.  Also if they
> had programmed support for W-Buffering, the 16-bit z-buffer problem would
> not be there.

> You could use RivaTuner to put the LOD bias back the other way, then force
> anisotropic filtering on, and that should remove the problem.

> Personally, once I'm into a race I hardly notice the shimmer.



> > The 'shimmer' is due to some Z buffer issues that are really only
resolved
> > by moving to 32 bit. and this will impact the framerates quite badly,
you
> > GF3 guys should be ok though.

> > Ian
> > www.simbin.com

Dave Henri

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

by Dave Henri » Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:14:53

  Dunno if it the same thing, but with F1 2000 CS many of the distant images
like billboards or fences would come into view as if blocked by a moving
train.  You'd see the billboard flashing with short breaks of the actual
image between blurred blocks until you got close enough to see the full
image.  I figured it was a 3dfx issue and since it didn't impact the
framerate or the actual track, I never worried about it.
dave henrie



> Ya can't help but loving a post like this.

> Thanks!

> -Larry



> > Actually, it's not a z-buffer issue at all.  There is a z-buffer problem
> > with F12001, but it doesn't make the tracks shimmer, it makes distant
> > objects get draw in the wrong order, so you'll see the inside of a tyre
> draw
> > over the outside.

> > The shimmering is because ISI have played around with the mip-map LOD
bias
> > setting in D3D to get a sharper image.  This is probably in response to
> the
> > criticism F1 2000 got over it's 'blurry' tracks.  Anyway, ISI have
changed
> > the LOD bias which changes the distances at which D3D switches to the
> > smaller textures.  Each of these distance have been moved closer to the
> > screen, so the game is using textures that are too big for the
particular
> > distance, hence you get a shimmer around mip-map boundaries.

> > If ISI had programmed support for Anisotropic filtering, it wouldn't
have
> > been necessary for them to manipulate the LOD bias this way.  Also if
they
> > had programmed support for W-Buffering, the 16-bit z-buffer problem
would
> > not be there.

> > You could use RivaTuner to put the LOD bias back the other way, then
force
> > anisotropic filtering on, and that should remove the problem.

> > Personally, once I'm into a race I hardly notice the shimmer.



> > > The 'shimmer' is due to some Z buffer issues that are really only
> resolved
> > > by moving to 32 bit. and this will impact the framerates quite badly,
> you
> > > GF3 guys should be ok though.

> > > Ian
> > > www.simbin.com

Will DeRiver

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

by Will DeRiver » Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:54:42


Now *that* is a Z-Buffer issue. The sparkling or shimmering textures is from
a lack of mip mapping or anistropic filtering.
--
- Will DeRivera
- GPL Rank 105.63, damn the 'ring!
- http://www.numic.net
- http://www.luxt.com

Don Burnett

F12001-Shimmering Graphics

by Don Burnett » Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:20:11

I saw that big time in the original F12000, annoying as hell.
I don't see that in F12001.

Don Burnette


>   Dunno if it the same thing, but with F1 2000 CS many of the distant
images
> like billboards or fences would come into view as if blocked by a moving
> train.  You'd see the billboard flashing with short breaks of the actual
> image between blurred blocks until you got close enough to see the full
> image.  I figured it was a 3dfx issue and since it didn't impact the
> framerate or the actual track, I never worried about it.
> dave henrie



> > Ya can't help but loving a post like this.

> > Thanks!

> > -Larry



> > > Actually, it's not a z-buffer issue at all.  There is a z-buffer
problem
> > > with F12001, but it doesn't make the tracks shimmer, it makes distant
> > > objects get draw in the wrong order, so you'll see the inside of a
tyre
> > draw
> > > over the outside.

> > > The shimmering is because ISI have played around with the mip-map LOD
> bias
> > > setting in D3D to get a sharper image.  This is probably in response
to
> > the
> > > criticism F1 2000 got over it's 'blurry' tracks.  Anyway, ISI have
> changed
> > > the LOD bias which changes the distances at which D3D switches to the
> > > smaller textures.  Each of these distance have been moved closer to
the
> > > screen, so the game is using textures that are too big for the
> particular
> > > distance, hence you get a shimmer around mip-map boundaries.

> > > If ISI had programmed support for Anisotropic filtering, it wouldn't
> have
> > > been necessary for them to manipulate the LOD bias this way.  Also if
> they
> > > had programmed support for W-Buffering, the 16-bit z-buffer problem
> would
> > > not be there.

> > > You could use RivaTuner to put the LOD bias back the other way, then
> force
> > > anisotropic filtering on, and that should remove the problem.

> > > Personally, once I'm into a race I hardly notice the shimmer.



> > > > The 'shimmer' is due to some Z buffer issues that are really only
> > resolved
> > > > by moving to 32 bit. and this will impact the framerates quite
badly,
> > you
> > > > GF3 guys should be ok though.

> > > > Ian
> > > > www.simbin.com


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