rec.autos.simulators

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

Andre Warrin

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by Andre Warrin » Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:59:37

On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:21:31 +0200, na_biker


>Tiff Needell driving the Lotus 49:

... Tiff drove a Lotus 49?? Is this clip anywhere for download on the
net?? I'd LOVE to see this..

Andre

na_bike

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by na_bike » Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:18:27



>On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:21:31 +0200, na_biker

>>Tiff Needell driving the Lotus 49:

>... Tiff drove a Lotus 49?? Is this clip anywhere for download on the
>net?? I'd LOVE to see this..

Yes, I remember seeing it on Top Gear in '97 or '98. That was on BBC
World though, it could've been a re-run so it could be older, I don't
know. Don't remember much of it, though apart from him screaming out
loud a couple of times and that it was on snetterton. Actually I
almost thought I dreamt it until I saw the autosport article I was
quoting.

Oh yeah, I sorta remember the concluding line -"A very much '60s
racecar at a very much '60s racetrack".

I have been trying to scour the web and have found a boatload of other
Tiff Top Gear clips, but not this one unfortunately... :-(

Andreas Nystro

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by Andreas Nystro » Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:31:17

I would like to see this too. Ive heard about it so many times, and ive
downloaded lots of topgear videos, still no one has encoded this masterpiece
:(


> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:21:31 +0200, na_biker

> >Tiff Needell driving the Lotus 49:

> ... Tiff drove a Lotus 49?? Is this clip anywhere for download on the
> net?? I'd LOVE to see this..

> Andre

Jan Verschuere

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by Jan Verschuere » Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:56:54

It's hardly going to be a masterpiece if Needell is involved...  ;-)

Jan.
=---

Eldre

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by Eldre » Sat, 20 Apr 2002 03:23:10



>It's very simple. They could not, even if they wanted, reach the brake with
>their left feet.
>The steering column (sp?) was in the way. The clutch was on one side of the
>steering column and the brake and gas pedals were on the other side.

>(Thats why I always consider left foot brakers in GPL to be cheaters ;-) )

Also, because you can't do it...?<g>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Okay, so the Detroit Tigers finally won a game.  But is 1-11 *really* something
to get e***d over...?
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Andre Warring

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by Andre Warring » Sat, 20 Apr 2002 05:35:42



Do you know any good places where I can download topgear videos?

Andre

Goy Larse

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by Goy Larse » Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:32:40




> >I would like to see this too. Ive heard about it so many times, and ive
> >downloaded lots of topgear videos, still no one has encoded this masterpiece
> >:(

> Do you know any good places where I can download topgear videos?

> Andre

WinMX or any of those programs for file sharing (Napster type), just
type in Topgear in the search field and limit results to "video"

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life"
--Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

J

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by J » Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:00:06

Not really sure about that, but..
wasn't the Sprite *with* syncromesh?
Probably they were only worn out <g>

Cya
Jens

BTW: Beautiful car, hmmmmm....

On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:58:34 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <tony_w h i t l e


>[From my experience driving a Frogeye Sprite with no synchromesh rather than
>time spent at the wheel of a Lotus 49] When changing down you have to match
>the revs of the engine to the speed of the car so that all of the gearbox is
>spinning at more or less the same speed. You have your foot on the brake to
>slow down with your heel (or side of your foot) on the accelerator to rev
>the engine. Your left foot is doing nothing. Changing up is simpler - you're
>not braking and the revs required are much longer.

>Tomorrow's lesson - double de-clutching...

>Tony Whitley

---------------------------------------------
LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
http://jensschumi.tripod.com/

GPLRank: -14.82
Monsters of GPL: sub 95

Tony Whitle

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by Tony Whitle » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:11:06

Jens,

I can't remember the technical details (something about not being a baulk
ring design?) but the synchromesh was limited in the first place and by the
time I got the car it was non-existent. Great fun playing with the pedals
though, almost compensated for the terrifying handling!

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A691030

To change up with a crash gearbox you must disengage the clutch, shift to
neutral and let the engine run down to a lower speed, re-engage the clutch
briefly in neutral to slow the gears down, then select the new, higher gear.
To change down you need even more pedal dexterity: you disengage the clutch,
shift to neutral, re-engage the clutch, blip the throttle rapidly to spin
the gears up, depress the clutch again and select the new, lower gear.

.......

Synchromesh is a refinement of the part of the constant-mesh gearbox where
the trouble happens: matching the little teeth on the inside of the selector
hubs with the little teeth on the side of the main drive gears. In a
synchromesh gearbox a system is introduced which spins the main gear (and
main shaft) up as the hub approaches. In its simplest form there is a
tapered section on the hub side of the main gear and a matching, grooved,
tapered, sintered (a form of heat treatment) bronze ring called a baulk ring
on the gear side of the hub. As the hub approaches the gear the bronze ring
rubs against the taper, and friction spins the gear up. Too fast and the
selector teeth will crash, too slow and there won't be enough movement
between the teeth on the hub and the gear for them to slide into place (they
might meet point-to-point).

Synchromesh started to be fitted to cars in the late 1920s and early 1930s,
but was by no means universal until the late 1950s. Even then it was not
uncommon for first and/or second gears not to be synchromeshed.

And, as anybody who has ever driven a Mini will know, early designs of
synchromesh were prone to fail. After about 40,000 miles the bronze rings in
the Mini's synchro hubs became smooth, so they no longer worked. Changing up
was OK but changing down without embarrassing grating noises required double
de-clutching. This was exacerbated by the Mini's engine having the gearbox
in the sump. This design, while brilliant from the point of
space-efficiency, meant compromise in the use of oil. The oil had to be
fluid enough to pump around the engine - but gears need a much thicker (and
generally cooler) oil to function effectively. Thus the BMC/Austin/Leyland
cars of two decades or more (including the Mini, the Allegro and the
revolutionary but flawed Maxi) were brought low by the Achilles Heel of
gearbox problems.
---------------------------------------
Perhaps more directly applicable to the OP is
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_heeltoe.lasso

Tony


> Not really sure about that, but..
> wasn't the Sprite *with* syncromesh?
> Probably they were only worn out <g>

> Cya
> Jens

> BTW: Beautiful car, hmmmmm....

> On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:58:34 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <tony_w h i t l e

> >[From my experience driving a Frogeye Sprite with no synchromesh rather
than
> >time spent at the wheel of a Lotus 49] When changing down you have to
match
> >the revs of the engine to the speed of the car so that all of the gearbox
is
> >spinning at more or less the same speed. You have your foot on the brake
to
> >slow down with your heel (or side of your foot) on the accelerator to rev
> >the engine. Your left foot is doing nothing. Changing up is simpler -
you're
> >not braking and the revs required are much longer.

> >Tomorrow's lesson - double de-clutching...

> >Tony Whitley

> ---------------------------------------------
> LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
> http://jensschumi.tripod.com/

> GPLRank: -14.82
> Monsters of GPL: sub 95

J

How did drivers change gear in 1967?

by J » Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:37:03

Tony,
as I suspected already, yours were worn out but not missing <vbg>
BTW: On my recent restored Morris Minor I didn't change the syncromeshs although
they are quite overdue. Makes driving more eventful :-)
BTW: Pictures at http://jensschumi.bravepages.com/GP_Malaysia.htm or at
http://jensschumi.tripod.com/GP_Malaysia.htm . Try both, one is outdated (dunno
which one though)

Cya

JensSchumi

On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:11:06 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <tony_w h i t l e


>Jens,

>I can't remember the technical details (something about not being a baulk
>ring design?) but the synchromesh was limited in the first place and by the
>time I got the car it was non-existent. Great fun playing with the pedals
>though, almost compensated for the terrifying handling!

---------------------------------------------
LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
http://jensschumi.tripod.com/

GPLRank: -14.82
Monsters of GPL: sub 95


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