rec.autos.simulators

You guys that have a FF wheel, could you give a more detailed information on
how it feels in GPL (or in N3)? Does it really give an instant and precise
feedback, or that's just something you'll be turning off when trying a real
fast lap? Is it something you'll never know how to live without, or does it
feel more like a nice toy?

Thanks
Mauro Diaz

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Not sure about anyone else, but personally I don't like the FF effects
in GPL at all. I'm using the Microsoft FF wheel.

Nascar 3 on the other hand works wonderfully with force feedback. I
can't stand it switched off. You can feel the banking of the car, you
know very well when you've damaged a wheel, you know when you have an
impact and even when you're spinning. Second best FF effects to NFS 3,
to be honest.

Can't live without it!

Ken,
- Remove 'nospamallowed' from my email address to reply.
- ICQ #53954494

GPL has the best FF implementation in the world, bar none. You can
feel not only the wheels and grip, but the weight of the car moving in
three dimensions. It's really incredible. It's only the second sim
where the FF is good enough to actually help you drive better (the
other is Viper Racing, also a very good implementation thought not
*quite* in the class of GPL).

Do a deja.com search of GPL and "force feedback" to read the many
raves about it when it first came out.

Joe McGinn
_________________________
GA-Sports Writer
http://www.ga-sports.com/

Uhg. NFS (3 & 4) as TERRIBLE force feedback. Nothing but cheesy
collision and road tecture effects. No information whatsoever on what
the car is actually doing.

Joe McGinn
_________________________
GA-Sports Writer
http://www.ga-sports.com/

Don't know about N3, but in GPL I think the feedback is instant and
precise. It adds another dimension to the game.

I'll never turn it off for a fast lap cause when you get used to it I
think you drive faster with it on.

And yes, it's something I couldn't live without now that I know how it
feels.

Takes some time getting used to it though. If you clip a curb you'll
have problems controlling the wheel (=wheel "jumping around") leading
to problems controlling the car. I still have these problems at
Silverstone in GPL.

/Martin

I have had a Logitech Wingman Force for about 2 1/2 months now, and I honestly
don't know how I drove GPL without FF...  I have shattered my PBs everywhere
I've raced since...  Go for it, you won't regret your decision.

I don't know about N3, but GPL and Viper Racing have great, realistic FF
effects.

Richard.
--
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I can't speak for N3, but the FF in GPL is incredible. I have a LWFF and I
couldn't live without it anymore. I can feel the weight changes, front tires
losing grip, when I'm about to lose the rear, the FF tells me "Would you
please give some opposite lock, thank you!". Different cars feel different,
even different setups do (I can clearly feel a difference, when I change the
front dampers one click). I can also feel hitting the bump ***s and when
I've slightly bent the suspension I can tell it by FF before I fly off next
corner.
All in all FF helped my consistency very much in GPL and it didn't hurt my
speed in any way (when I'm still too slow, that's me, not FF :-). *BUT* it
is very important to find good settings for FF in GPL. When the forces are
set too big and the latency too low, you may have to fight the wheel. Since
these settings are very individual (similar to car-setups) and differ from
wheel to wheel, you'll have to play around with them until you find 'yours'.

Peter
Vienna, Austria

Everyone here seems to be saying that FF is brilliant in GPL, but I can't
get used to it.

I have a the MSFF wheel, and I much prefer to play GPL with the FF turned
off.  I just can't seem to steer the wheel from left to right quick enough
to
correct a slide with the FF turned on.  I know this is more realistic, but I
seem
to be able to race quicker with it turned off.

Scott

Seconded, NFS3 and 4 have crappy FF implementation, GPL, and Viper have
excellent FF and N3 and NL have FF which is quite good .

GPL you can feel everything the car is doing. ie weight shift, grip loss
etc.
Viper you can feel nearly everything the car is doing.
N3 and NL you can feel if the the car is gripping or losing grip.
MTM2 feel grip levels but too many rumble and crash effects
NFS 3 & 4 you feel just the collision effects etc. I can't feel any useful
information.

BTW I use a MSFF wheel with software 3.02 and the settings at : return to
centre = off and force feedback = low

--
Ian Parker

UKGPL League
http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl/index.html
http://www.ukgpl.com
--

You must have your settings crossed up somewhere Scott. As with real life
independantly sprung cars, the forces reacted through the chassis will
_help_ you to steer into the slide. The real problem is not over correcting!

Don't worry Mauro, if you do your homework (reading Alison's comments on FF
wheel setup is a must) you will benifit from using FF in GPL. I'm faster and
more consistent everywhere.

I've yet to rewire my pedals and the LWFF to be able to try N3 with FF
enabled, but it's hard to see how the same team could have gone wrong with
the FF in that game.

Jan.
----

<Snip>

I can only speak about the Logitech Wing Man FF and GPL.

While going through Eau Rouge at Spa, I can feel the chassis flexing through
the wheel.  Its that good.  Also, I can feel a wheel loosing grip sooner.

Try turning the damping variable way down.  I use a MSFF too and I use
force_feedback_damping = 2.  It makes a huge difference for me - much
quicker steering.  I don't know what the consensus is regarding the
"correct" settings for the MSFF but try playing with the variables, it's all
very subjective anyway.

The settings make a big difference. When I got my LWFF and used the default settings I did
not like what I felt from the wheel. After trying suggested GPL settings and experimenting
its great. I have a very good custom made wheel with increased Turing (760 deg) through
timing belt and pulleys all mounted on ball bearings, but I use the LWFF instead because
of FF.  The LWFF has plastic bushing that are not real smooth, and short throw pedals, so
now I am customizing them.
I think every brand of wheel and how they are setup are going to have a different FF feel
so you will have many different opinions.
.
Lutrell

Feel the chassis flexing? That's it, I'm getting a FF wheel.

Marty