rec.autos.simulators

Since the "Hawaii Cheating" has been so successful and serious, how about I
point this in another form.

Papy says they will make "hawaii" a "level" playing field. So I would like to
ask the "Beta" testers of Papy this, how come you are entitled to the various
utilities( telemetry, plotters ), replays, and the weaknesses of Hawaii?? Now
who is playing "fair"?? You all stay in contact with the Papy boyz, for
developments and such. Why isn't there anything "published" for the weaknesses
of Hawaii?? How do "we" know that you all aren't "cheating". Where are the
utilities?? Hmm.. I see a "double standard" here. You can do it, but no one else
can!!

Now there's an edge when I see one!!!; )

As for the people saying that people cheat if they modify the settings file,
will think about that?? Okay???

Also, the programs are available for everyone for modifying the setups file!!!
Now that certainly isn't hiding at all.. These types of programs were made by
Mike Day and Mike Foromo.

I can't wait to see this twist..; )

Something for you all to think about..

take care..

Hi Everyone,

I've been a tester for Papyrus forever it seems.  I can assure you that I
have only the files that you have regarding HAWAII.  I have no other
utilities nor have I ever recieved any other utilities for HAWAII that
wasn't available in the HAWAII.ZIP files that everyone recieves.  I've
never recieved any setup utilities or anykind of setup help from Papy ever.
 Weaknesses of HAWAII?  I'm not even sure what this means.  HAWAII runs
just as it does on everyones machine with the new multi.exe so I don't
understand what that means.    

This accusation is outragious.  The only advantage I may be guilty of is
more time on the system then most.  I have very much enjoyed my time spent
testing with the Papy crew and other beta testers.  I'm not a hacker and I
don't understand why the first thing some folks do is look for ways to
cheat instead of looking for ways to improve thier talents.

I never thought about cheating on Hawaii.  When I started hearing about it
a couple of months ago I thought, well its probably just a few and they are
probably guys I don't wish to race with anyway.  I still believe that to be
the case.  I hope that everyone who is caught cheating has their name
posted on one of the openning screens on Hawaii so I know who to avoid
racing with.

Before this last attempt at some self dignity from Mr. Data, I didn't plan
on responding to this thread.  Everyone who cheats is a LOSER.  Its that
simple.  I think you'll probably find its a problem they have not only on
HAWAII.

See you guys on the track,
Nim Cross

Masterful reply Nim!!

Don Atkins...

  Just when I'm starting to slide toward understanding others defense of
your position, you go and write this stuff...
  I noted that you mentioned names above. Yet when you wish to smear
people on Hawaii,
you keep that little secret to yourself. If you are going to accuse then
have the courage to face them, not cause unwarranted suspicion among
friends. I find this tactic
immature and divisive.
  You seem to be enjoying "the game"....thats why I think that you'll
have a difficult time gaining trust on MP in the future.

                                          Mike Langston

Sorry for the double reply guys.  This is my first time on RAS and I didn't
realise my first message was posted.  I learned how to use RAS because of
this thread so I could reply.  Sorry for the inconvienence I may have
caused with two replies.

Nim

:Hi Loser,

Loser?? You are resorting to name calling now?? How mature of you..

:You asked the beta testers a question so I think I'll try to answer it for
:you.  You asked, "why do we get things like utilities (telemetry,
:plotters), replays, and the weaknesses of HAWAII."  The answer to your
:question is that you need to get better informants.

Hmm....Stop being so secretative..okay??

 I've been testing for
:Papy for quite a long time.  I've enjoyed every second of it.

Nim, I am really happy for you..Honest. I am..

  I have never
:recieved a file from Papyrus such as the kind you mentioned above.  You
:have every single file I do to log on and participate on HAWAII.  You are
:just as much a beta tester as is everyone who races on HAWAII as I am.  I
:am givin no other files or help from Papy then you do.  The only
:distinction that gives me the title called HAWAII BETA TESTER is that I've
:done this longer than you.
:
Hmm.. I guess you are not really close to them, eh?? Wow, how in the hell are
you suppose to send you critique?????

:If there is any question about Papyrus's desire to make this a fair playing
:field for everyone including, BETA TESTERS, Papy employees, and even DALE
:EARNHARDT if he decided to log on, let me tell you now your wrong.  These
:guys work hard and very long hours to ensure fair play and also to help
:make our dreams of racing other drivers in a simulated NASCAR world come
:true.  Can you also imagine the amount of money this thing costs and they
:have been letting us all participate without them taking in a dime!
:
That will probably change Nim...

:In my opinion anyone that would dial up such a network and try to hack it
:and violate the integrity of what such a company is trying to do, IS A
:LOSER!  I suspect your last comments were to try to raise questions in some
:other drivers minds and to save your own face at the expence of those who
:have always played by the rules and in the spirit of the network.  YOU
:LOSE!  It didn't work!   If you are cheating please continue to do so.  You
:will be caught.  I've known the guys a Papy for a while now and I know when
:they set out to catch you guys they will.  Then you too can claim your
:place in the hall of shame.

I really don't care what people think anymore.. I am not covering my ass. I am
now just being open minded.. I don't care what people think of me.. But it's
really funny, that people bad mouth me and yet I get alot of email from them for
help during these posts..

I see that people twist words in here..So screw'em..

ttyl

::    I apologize Julian, but I haven't got a clue as to what the heck
:you're talking about.
:
Ahh don't worry about it..

:  Just when I'm starting to slide toward understanding others defense of
:your position, you go and write this stuff...

I am not worry about my defense..Thanks anyways..

:  I noted that you mentioned names above. Yet when you wish to smear
:people on Hawaii,

Smear?? I was just asking?? I wasn't smearing.. Again the words are being
twisted or misread..

:you keep that little secret to yourself. If you are going to accuse then
:have the courage to face them, not cause unwarranted suspicion among
:friends. I find this tactic
:immature and divisive.

Imature??

:  You seem to be enjoying "the game"....thats why I think that you'll
:have a difficult time gaining trust on MP in the future.

It's okay MIke, I am not worried about trust. I have found out who can trust me.
I really don't care who doesn't. Some people just jumped on the "bandwagon"
having no idea what's going on.

take care

:
:                                          Mike Langston

Hi Loser,

You asked the beta testers a question so I think I'll try to answer it for
you.  You asked, "why do we get things like utilities (telemetry,
plotters), replays, and the weaknesses of HAWAII."  The answer to your
question is that you need to get better informants.  I've been testing for
Papy for quite a long time.  I've enjoyed every second of it.  I have never
recieved a file from Papyrus such as the kind you mentioned above.  You
have every single file I do to log on and participate on HAWAII.  You are
just as much a beta tester as is everyone who races on HAWAII as I am.  I
am givin no other files or help from Papy then you do.  The only
distinction that gives me the title called HAWAII BETA TESTER is that I've
done this longer than you.

If there is any question about Papyrus's desire to make this a fair playing
field for everyone including, BETA TESTERS, Papy employees, and even DALE
EARNHARDT if he decided to log on, let me tell you now your wrong.  These
guys work hard and very long hours to ensure fair play and also to help
make our dreams of racing other drivers in a simulated NASCAR world come
true.  Can you also imagine the amount of money this thing costs and they
have been letting us all participate without them taking in a dime!

In my opinion anyone that would dial up such a network and try to hack it
and violate the integrity of what such a company is trying to do, IS A
LOSER!  I suspect your last comments were to try to raise questions in some
other drivers minds and to save your own face at the expence of those who
have always played by the rules and in the spirit of the network.  YOU
LOSE!  It didn't work!   If you are cheating please continue to do so.  You
will be caught.  I've known the guys a Papy for a while now and I know when
they set out to catch you guys they will.  Then you too can claim your
place in the hall of shame.

Take Care Folks,
Nim Cross

Mark,

I've seen you become considerably better than you were way back in August,
as have all the original beta testers.  You know there could be something
to the fact that the experience gained from repetition is why the original
beta testers do O.K..  Not some trumped up speculation that we are entitled
to any special software not available to the masses.  Julian admitted he
went outside of the sim to gain speed which is unfortunate.  I hope he
doesn't spend too much time trying to turn the tables on Papyrus or the
original beta testers, with accusations that could be construed as
something bigger than is necessary.  Instead, I think he should spend some
time working on normal setups like the rest of us.

Let's use you as an example Mark.  Recently you've been running  up front
in the "Pro" series' races.  Why?  Because you have been working harder and
smarter than you ever did before.  Your going faster and lasting longer,
heck your even in 3rd position I think in the ProHCS standings after 6
races.  Everyone has a good time in chat before and after the races because
the camaraderie is huge.  Where does it come from??  TRUST and RESPECT.
Your working hard, getting results and having fun.  This is all possible
because you know the fellas your racing with are not cheating even if at
one time their speeds seemed impossible to duplicate.  You had no doubts
about how the guys were going so fast outside of simple preparation and now
your on the same level.  On the other hand, what if you did think we were
all cheating??  You wouldn't even be*** around right now.  You'd be
off spending your time doing something else you enjoyed.  That's how I feel
about the fastlaps thing.  Now we find out how you get to be ranked 'the
fastest driver in the world' off-line.

Unfortunately as Larry put it, there will always be cheating no matter what
and it will depress the non-cheaters if they let it.  Only thing you can do
is find a group of comparable drivers who you trust and respect and drive
each other to the next level over and over again.  Papyrus has given us the
tools to have ourselves a good time.  It's up to us whether we use 'em to
build something that we're all proud of or use 'em to tear down everything
we've come to love.  Some won't care about it and will live to 'hack' it to
pieces or win at all costs.  However, the majority will stick together
under an umbrella of good morals, sportsmanship, trust, respect & dignity
and have a great time.  Here's looking forward to continued kick-ass racing
with you Mark, and the whole sim-racing community.  The cheaters have no
chance against us, they will be weeded out, singled out and stomped out.

Ripp
Virtual Velocity Racing

Who don't Rhawn and the other guys beat regularly?

I usually only see those guys on the first lap, when they do decide to
come to a pickup race.  I don't think they are cheating.  I don't cheat
and all the guys that beat me everynight could verify that :)   I'm not
great but I can hold my own with some of the bigboys or medium boys.  

Higgy    

Original testers,

        Most of you probably dont know me but I'm not the point of this reply
anyway. The points I did want to make are that its pretty easy to see
that most of you orginal testers are just good fast drivers. Its also
easy to see why you guys got to be in on the closed portion of the test.
The ones I've come across are all basically good level headed guys who
love to race. I used RhawnBlack as my bench mark when I first joined
Hawaii in Aug. I raced Rhawn in Aug at Bristol using the standard setup
and he qual'd at 126.8. I qual'd at 124.3.  After lots & lots of
practice I can now qual 126+ at bristol using the standard setup.  I AM
NOT trying to blow my own horn here just trying to add to the point that
practice & patience pays off. NOT CHEATING! I got ALOT of satisfaction
knowing that I too can run close to the same lap times as the fast guys
out there w/o cheating. If I can do it, so can most others. I ran w/Pete
Reston for 100 laps at Atlanta during the last NiteOwls race & you can
tell Pete just knows how to drive.  Even if they had utilities, patches
or whatever (I believe they didn't) before the rest of us, if they
wern't good drivers, it wouldn't matter much. If a guys doesn't know how
to race, when & where to pass, how to setup the guy your trying to pass,
the best line for your setup, throttle control, when to pit, and
probably most importantly, when to back off, your not going to finish up
front at the end of 100+ laps.  I dont care how much someone cheats.
Mr. Data, give these guys the respect they deserve.

V/R,
Bob_Stanley

:Mr. Data, give these guys the respect they deserve.
:
:V/R,
:Bob_Stanley

Bob,

I do respect them...

take care

Julian Data
IVGA Member #0004
Director of Information Technology
ACE Beta Tester and Driver of IVGA
Channel Operator of #ivga on IRC (Undernet)
Powered by IVGA Pro Gamer System P6-200 oc 233, 96MB EDO

Bob, its probably next to impossible to tell a very good driver
with a setup that he has spent untold hours practicing from a good driver
with a hacked setup. The hacker still has to practice and learn the lines
but the advantage is he may have the perfect setup to start with and all
he has to do is learn the line, gas and brake points. I know in my own
case I ended up spending all my time at tracks I liked during the beta
stage and didn't spend anywhere the time I should on the others. I was
having too much fun. But I did earn a great deal of respect for those
drivers that did take the time and set their cars up and learn how to
drive them. There are some excellent drivers on the system who don't
do their setups and thus probably have been able to spend more time
perfecting their lines than those of us who try and do most if not
all our own.  I don't have any pretense that I am or ever will be the
best on Hawaii but I'll do the best I can with my own resources. I can
more than hold my own at a few tracks and am so, so at others.

        Thanks, for the kind words about our Night Owls race at Atlanta!
It was a two man race until the Black Flag! And it would have been real
tight at the end. You certainly proved to me that you are an excellent
driver and setup man. As you were able to negate an early advantage I had
and during your pits adjust the car and rein me in so that it was nose to tail
for I don't know how many laps. I'm looking forward to running a full
season next go round with the Owls' hope you are there!

Pete

Then how are you so fast everywhere, Nim!! :)

Hats off to everyone doing it with Hard Work. I really hope Papy will catch
the people
doing this in an unfair way and even the field up. SInce I've been there <I
joined it over
a year ago>, it seems like things get better. Hopefully with the NRL
they'll be able to
do more to combat this kind of thing

Richard
Quikslvr on Hawaii