> Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard
> www.iracingfx.com
--
Fester
Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8)
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> 4/15/02
> > Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard
> > www.iracingfx.com
> Too much information Bill. :-)
> --
> Fester
> Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8)
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> 4/15/02
> > If you're talking about SS racing, I think you are wrong about it
> > being unrealistic. I'll assume you mean at tracks where you have to
> > lift every lap.
> EVERY track right now has a draft, it is just how MUCH. I am not disputing
> the SS (Tona, Dega), just the 1- 1 1/2 mile tracks. Heck we are even
> significantly faster at Loudon in a draft. You can LOSE a draft at Loudon
> and be SOL.
You're actually going faster at California than you are at Talladega a
good part of the time. I would expect the faster you go, the more
pronounced the effect.
Maybe those cars aren't as mediocre as you think. Also, talented
drivers can do more with less, etc. Being able to hang on to
somebody's draft makes up for a lot of deficiencies. Catching is a
lot easier than passing, too.
Enjoy the fact that you evidently have a good group of drivers with
whom to race. Personally, I have never witnessed much in the way of
more than 2 or 3 cars remaining packed together for an entire fuel run
at ANY track. Lined up like a silly parade at Tally, yes, but not
actually racing. At any other track, never. On the other hand, you
do see this time and time again when you watch real WC races.
I think you give "fixed setup" too much credit as a field equalizer.
It's all in how you drive it, many times.
And it is a game, not a sim.
Gerald
You race me and a few teammates at Loudon or any track and you lose a draft,
you are gonna be SOL.
I can make mediocre cars and I can race a mediocre car. To have such a wide
area of a "miss" with this game is lame. You don't see it in real life, why
should we be seeing it within this game? We didn't have such a wide zone of
forgiveness in any of the previous models (n1 thru n3 in particular), and
the racing was actually better.
The reason you see it in WC races is because of yellows. Just like you saw
in the most recent Cali race, when you have long green runs the field gets
filtered out. The draft is NOT keeping low end teams within seconds of the
highest end teams. If their car is bad, they run bad, if the car is good
they run up front. In real life, you can have a mediocre car at Dega or
Tona and stay within seconds, but at any other track that is impossible. In
our ARCADE GAME, it is obvious they have dummied down the physics engine to
make people artificially keep closer together.
Many times it is also about system performance, equipment, connection
quality, frame rate etc. Even FIXED setup racing is not fair, even for the
BEST driver. The true equalizer IS open setups, because of the ability for
someone to tweak their setup to fit their equipment. The problem is now,
for the highest end of racers there is no seperation. Papyrus has widened
the room for error in setup performance with the effect drafting is playing.
That is obvious, the physics engine has been dummied down to artifically
keep people packed together. Not realistic at all therefore not a
simulation.
Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard
www.iracingfx.com
Kerry
> > Well, in the real world, all tracks DO have a draft once you start
> > getting into higher speeds. I haven't raced Loudon yet in 2002, but I
> > am suprised to hear you say that losing a draft there would ruin your
> > day.
> You race me and a few teammates at Loudon or any track and you lose a
draft,
> you are gonna be SOL.
> > Maybe those cars aren't as mediocre as you think. Also, talented
> > drivers can do more with less, etc. Being able to hang on to
> > somebody's draft makes up for a lot of deficiencies. Catching is a
> > lot easier than passing, too.
> I can make mediocre cars and I can race a mediocre car. To have such a
wide
> area of a "miss" with this game is lame. You don't see it in real life,
why
> should we be seeing it within this game? We didn't have such a wide zone
of
> forgiveness in any of the previous models (n1 thru n3 in particular), and
> the racing was actually better.
> > Enjoy the fact that you evidently have a good group of drivers with
> > whom to race. Personally, I have never witnessed much in the way of
> > more than 2 or 3 cars remaining packed together for an entire fuel run
> > at ANY track. Lined up like a silly parade at Tally, yes, but not
> > actually racing. At any other track, never. On the other hand, you
> > do see this time and time again when you watch real WC races.
> The reason you see it in WC races is because of yellows. Just like you
saw
> in the most recent Cali race, when you have long green runs the field gets
> filtered out. The draft is NOT keeping low end teams within seconds of
the
> highest end teams. If their car is bad, they run bad, if the car is good
> they run up front. In real life, you can have a mediocre car at Dega or
> Tona and stay within seconds, but at any other track that is impossible.
In
> our ARCADE GAME, it is obvious they have dummied down the physics engine
to
> make people artificially keep closer together.
> > I think you give "fixed setup" too much credit as a field equalizer.
> > It's all in how you drive it, many times.
> Many times it is also about system performance, equipment, connection
> quality, frame rate etc. Even FIXED setup racing is not fair, even for
the
> BEST driver. The true equalizer IS open setups, because of the ability
for
> someone to tweak their setup to fit their equipment. The problem is now,
> for the highest end of racers there is no seperation. Papyrus has widened
> the room for error in setup performance with the effect drafting is
playing.
> > And it is a game, not a sim.
> That is obvious, the physics engine has been dummied down to artifically
> keep people packed together. Not realistic at all therefore not a
> simulation.
> Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard
> www.iracingfx.com
Please don't post a binary file on the Usenet unless it's a specified
*.binaries.* newsgroup. We ain't on the other side in the MHO newsgroup
here.
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|
| >In real life, you can have a mediocre car at Dega or
| >Tona and stay within seconds, but at any other track that is impossible. In
| >our ARCADE GAME, it is obvious they have dummied down the physics engine to
| >make people artificially keep closer together.
|
| Strange. I haven't seen that in our series of races so far. At all the
| tracks, the cars break up into smaller groups. It sounds like you're saying
| the whole field stays together for a duration of the fuel run? Not in our
| experience. Maybe you just got lucky(or unlucky, as the case may be).
|
| Eldred
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| Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
| A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
| *** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
| donation. Thank you.
|
| Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
|
Eldred
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*** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
> The reason you see it in WC races is because of yellows. Just like you saw
> in the most recent Cali race, when you have long green runs the field gets
> filtered out. The draft is NOT keeping low end teams within seconds of the
> highest end teams. If their car is bad, they run bad, if the car is good
> they run up front.
Aside from this, there are many many variables that are not addressed
by this game, probably the most signifigant of which is engine
performance, but also wear and tear on the car as the race progresses,
variable weather, etc. I don't think you can lay a major rap on the
drafting model as making the game unrealistic.
Again, I don't see this at all in the races I am in. Usually there is
a very wide range of performance and skill, and the cars get much more
strung out after only a short run than WC fields over an entire race.
Your statements seem contradictory... if open setups are the great
equalizer, then should it not follow that everyone will be closer
together?
See my comments above. I think we agree that it is just a game, but
for slightly different reasons. It is more "realistic" than many
other racing games, and that is part of it's attraction for me, but
the only real reason I do it is because it's fun.
Aren't you having fun? If not give it a rest.
Gerald
I thought he was saying that fixed setups aren't fair for the fast guys,
because they can't use their super-duper (insert name here) setup... But for
someone with no setup skill, open setup races are almost a joke. Someone who
can create and drive a 'knife-edge' setup will usually DUST someone who is
stuck using default setups...
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
*** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
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