rec.autos.simulators

by **John Pancoas** » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:00:24

Yes, that was nice in the previous Nx versions for sure. Re the rev
limiters, they do exist, but they're not used for pace/pit speed, only to
limit max rpms.

-John

> > Could be a bug true, but personally, I haven't seen any. Every time
I've
> >heard of a flag, etc. bug, replay view has shown differently. People
> >getting unsafe entry/exit penalities, i.e. think it's a bug.........until
> >they see they drove over the yellow line, on grass, etc.

> I hate the fact that you can't use 'auto-brake' anymore to be safe from
> speeding on pit lane. The WC cars have a rev-limiter, don't they??? Why
don't
> we?

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> GPLRank - under construction...

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **John Pancoas** » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:02:16

Actually, if you pass under yellow, no matter where, you have to come back
in later via bf. But since this was under green, that doesn't matter :)

Not sure why you'd get a bf for a green flag pit stop, very strange to be
sure.

-John

> Yes, it would. But, it should be served concurrently with the
> speeding penalty, if I understand the rules correctly.

> Anyway, in this case, I was pitting under green.

> Gerald

> > When you sped going into the pits, did you pass anyone on the track
under
> > yellow before/during entering the pits, including on the apron going
into
> > the pits, etc.?
> > That would be a black flag.

> > -John

> > > No ideas, other than that I share your suspicion that it is a bug...

> > > I was racing at NC last week and got in a wreck. My car was really
> > > beat up and so I knew I was going to be in the pits a long time
> > > anyway, and since the pits were empty at the time, I just sped to my
> > > stall. I got the 15 second penalty, and then was given the go ahead.
> > > Then, back on the speedway, I kept getting a "you're going to have to
> > > come in to serve this black flag" message. So I went in and served
> > > it, and after that everything was OK.

> > > Didn't go back and watch the replay, but I don't remember doing
> > > anything that could have remotely caused another black flag besides
> > > the one for speeding, and certainly didn't receive any messages from
> > > my spotter about one.

> > > Hope they fix it soon if the bug is as pervasive as it seems.

> > > Gerald

> > > > Have noticed in several different league races over the past week:
1) At
> > > > North Carolina: A driver came into the pits during a race, sped so
he
> > got a
> > > > 15 sec "Hold" penalty. At the end of the 15 seconds the time turned
> > green,
> > > > spotter never said Go and he could not leave the pits. Regardless of
> > gear,
> > > > engine revved and he could not move. He had to retire. 2)At Phoenix:
> > Leader
> > > > comes in under yellow for tires and gas. At the end of a normal 14.9
> > second
> > > > stop, same deal. Engine revving and regardles of gear, he could not
> > move. He
> > > > had to retire. 3)Last night at Bristol: One driver had a good
pitstop
> > early
> > > > on, and there after he could not get tires. He'd come in, get gas,
and
> > they
> > > > would tell him to "Go Go Go" with no tire changing going on at all.
This
> > > > driver was BF's early inrace. came in under green and they pitted
him,
> > not a
> > > > stop and go. There after he got no tires in 4 tries.

> > > > This has happened in the past 7 days, to 3 different drivers on 2
> > different
> > > > servers. Any ideas?

> > > > (Would have postd this at Papy, but their board is apparently down
for
> > > > maintenance...)

by **Eldre** » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:33:03

But, speeding on pit road WILL draw the black flag. The fact that your pitstop
was very lenghty doesn't matter. You still have to answer the flag for the
infraction.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 05:12:38

> no I don't think WC cars do have a rev limiter. They run a few passes
>down pitlane in 2nd to check the needed rpm and then (gasp!) drive in under
>the limit.
>dave henrie

I've had problems trying to deal with the AI in pit lane. I have to worry
about getting *close* to the limit, while dodging the AI going in and out, and
trying to find my OWN pit. I've gotten a black flag for going *1* mph over the
limit for one FRAME. Meanwhile, the AI hits the limit, stays right at it, no
problem.
Not fair, dammit...<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Gerald Moo** » Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:21:53

Well, I served it at the end of my stop. "They are holding us 15
seconds"... etc. To my knowledge, I didn't speed leaving the pits, or
get above the blend line, and it was green flag racing, so the passing
rules don't apply. After passing the S/F line, my spotter starts
saying I have to come in.... it is as if I never served the penalty
for speeding into the pits.

In any case, either I drove illegally and it didn't inform me
properly, or it never gave me credit for serving the penalty. Either
way it is a bug.

My memory could be flaky. I wish I had saved the replay.

G

> (Gerald Moore) writes:

> >No ideas, other than that I share your suspicion that it is a bug...

> >I was racing at NC last week and got in a wreck. My car was really
> >beat up and so I knew I was going to be in the pits a long time
> >anyway, and since the pits were empty at the time, I just sped to my
> >stall. I got the 15 second penalty, and then was given the go ahead.
> >Then, back on the speedway, I kept getting a "you're going to have to
> >come in to serve this black flag" message. So I went in and served
> >it, and after that everything was OK.

> >Didn't go back and watch the replay, but I don't remember doing
> >anything that could have remotely caused another black flag besides
> >the one for speeding, and certainly didn't receive any messages from
> >my spotter about one.

> But, speeding on pit road WILL draw the black flag. The fact that your pitstop
> was very lenghty doesn't matter. You still have to answer the flag for the
> infraction.

> Eldred

by **PHYDEAUX** » Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:49:35

>Subject: Re: N4 Bug report for Papy and/or Eric Bush

>Date: 11/06/2001 12:25 AM Eastern Standard Time

> Hmm......definately strange, to be sure. If you haven't already, put it
>on the Sierra board and see what, if anything, comes from it.

> Fwiw, last week, I ran a 75% online race at Phoenix, and didn't hear of
>this happening, so who knows whats up.

> It sounds like the code is holding him for a reason, but definately not
>sure about that.

>-John

I got trapped in the pits once with a penalty for some infraction....I think I
spun onto entrance of pit road at Daytona or Dega. got a black flag for
speeding even though I hadn't actually pitted. When I pitted to clear the flag
I got serviced then the official stood in fron of car looking at his watch and
never released me from the pits. There were about 14-15 laps left and I did
them all in the pits. Of course this was before the 1.3patch.

DB

(Don't gimme NO***in E-mail)

by **Don Jenning** » Fri, 16 Nov 2001 04:44:49

"Dave Henrie" wrote ...

Correct, no rev limiter on WC cars. Actually, the teams can determine the needed rpm's ahead of time with a simple calculator -- they know the speed limit and they know what ratio gear they're running, and they do the math. They confirm the needed rpm when the pace car leads them down pit road one time at the speed limit and they watch the tach. In addition, because the accordion effect of 22 rows of cars can introduce a substantial error in that pace-car-speedometer-to-race-car-tach conversion, you'll often (if not always) see a second pace car that leads the back half of the field until they've made their pit lane run-through.

by **Larr** » Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:31:59

Run his ass over :)

-Larry

> >Subject: Re: N4 Bug report for Papy and/or Eric Bush

> >Date: 11/06/2001 12:25 AM Eastern Standard Time

> > Hmm......definately strange, to be sure. If you haven't already, put
it
> >on the Sierra board and see what, if anything, comes from it.

> > Fwiw, last week, I ran a 75% online race at Phoenix, and didn't hear of
> >this happening, so who knows whats up.

> > It sounds like the code is holding him for a reason, but definately not
> >sure about that.

> >-John

> I got trapped in the pits once with a penalty for some infraction....I
think I
> spun onto entrance of pit road at Daytona or Dega. got a black flag for
> speeding even though I hadn't actually pitted. When I pitted to clear the
flag
> I got serviced then the official stood in fron of car looking at his watch
and
> never released me from the pits. There were about 14-15 laps left and I
did
> them all in the pits. Of course this was before the 1.3patch.

> DB

> (Don't gimme NO***in E-mail)

by **Larr** » Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:33:26

I always set 1st gear to top out about 1 mph under the speed limit. Then, I
just keep it near the limit on pit road, and I stay out of trouble.

My biggest problem is speeding by accident, not on purpose :)

-Larry

"Dave Henrie" wrote ...

Correct, no rev limiter on WC cars. Actually, the teams can determine the
needed rpm's ahead of time with a simple calculator -- they know the speed
limit and they know what ratio gear they're running, and they do the math.
They confirm the needed rpm when the pace car leads them down pit road one
time at the speed limit and they watch the tach. In addition, because the
accordion effect of 22 rows of cars can introduce a substantial error in
that pace-car-speedometer-to-race-car-tach conversion, you'll often (if not
always) see a second pace car that leads the back half of the field until
they've made their pit lane run-through.

by **Olav K. Malm** » Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:56:51

> > "EldredP" wrote ...
> > > The WC cars have a rev-limiter, don't they

> "Dave Henrie" wrote ...
> > no I don't think WC cars do have a rev limiter. They run a few passes
> > down pitlane in 2nd to check the needed rpm and then (gasp!) drive in under
> > the limit.

> Correct, no rev limiter on WC cars. Actually, the teams can determine the needed rpm's ahead of time with a simple calculator -- they know the speed limit and they know what ratio gear they're running, and they do the math. They confirm the needed rpm when the pace car leads them down pit road one time at the speed limit and they watch the tach. In addition, because the accordion effect of 22 rows of cars can introduce a substantial error in that pace-car-speedometer-to-race-car-tach conversion, you'll often (if not always) see a second pace car that leads the back half of the field until they've made their pit lane run-through.

So that is the reason for the second pace car. When I watched the
trucks race at California Speedway on CART qualifying day last year, I
asked someone sitting next to me about the second pace car and the
answer was: "NASCAR always use two pacecars at the beginning of the
pace laps" :)

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

by **Mick** » Sat, 17 Nov 2001 04:59:37

This has started happening with more frequency since the new 1.3 patch
arrived.. I've witnessed it on numerous occasions, and had it happen to
me personally once. Most of the time it's been when a driver comes in to
serve a black flag infraction, and is never allowed to return to the
track. But I've also heard of it happening when a car just stops for a
routine pitstop. I posted to the Papy board, and got replies from racers
that have had the same thing happen, but nothing from any of the Papy
guys.. Unless it starts hitting more people, and more complaints come
in, I doubt if anything will be done about it.. Even then, I doubt if
anything would be done.. I get the impression Papy has washed their
hands of Nascar Racing 4..

> >Subject: Re: N4 Bug report for Papy and/or Eric Bush

> >Date: 11/06/2001 12:25 AM Eastern Standard Time

> > Hmm......definately strange, to be sure. If you haven't already, put it
> >on the Sierra board and see what, if anything, comes from it.