rec.autos.simulators

my central point being that Joe Public would find anything approaching
a  realistic simulation of WC cars (i.e. using a modified GPL engine)
much too demanding, and that this depress sales for Sierra. Not having
driven one for real however, i am unable to comment further !

And - If driving WC cars were so easy (compared to GPL) then why on any
given Sunday do we see the *best* drivers in these cars losing it?  
Either all by themselves or in a crowd, it's nearly guaranteed that
you'll see someone lose it and end up in the wall.

I can think of a few off hand recently - Michael Waltrip, Steve Park,
Dave Marcus (with help from Brett Bodine), and Dale Earnhardt (during
practice).  These guys are in the top Nascar series, and they sometimes
can't handle the cars they are driving.  

I want the same in a Sim'.  I don't care how bad I suck at it.  I want it
to be REAL.

David L. Cook

2) The physics model in GPL requires a fairly hefty processor and lots of
memory to keep up with 20 cars on the track.  Add the burden of collision
detection position prediction, and velocity, acceleration, and other
technical stuff, and the CPU is workin it's ass off to provide something
close to correct information.  I don't know where they got their minimum
of a P/166, but whoever came up with that should be shot.

3) The graphics rendering partially utilizes the CPU for some
calaulctions as far as attitude and shadows are concerned, but for the
most part, a decent 3D card removes a significant chunk of the load as
far as rendering goes.

4) The CPU is also managing network/communications info.

Now, knowing all of that....

1) Take what GPL models in terms of physics, and multiply the load by
112%.  In Nascar, you have more than twice as many cars to display,
model, and predict.  There's NO WAY in hell ANY of our machines will be
able to model all of that info with the current state of today's CPUs.

2) Granted stock cars don't have to model suspension movement in terms of
graphic rendering, but they DO have to model suspension movement in terms
of physics.

3) To acurately model a stock car's physics, one has to consider whether
or not the car is a super speedway car (more pronounced roof rails that
also extended down the back window), a road course car, or a short track
car.  Not only that, but they have to model the roof flpas and the effect
on the aero depolyed flaps would have on the moving body.

A Nascar sim with GPL physics would never be able to run sufficiently to
get much attention by the *** public, and would probably be blasted
for being "unplayable with even the best hardware currently available".  
It would gather dust on store shelves until the hardware caught up.  It's
as plain as the noses on your faces.

Should we give papy a break? Yeah, they're not to blame that the hardware
isn't available to run the sim they want to design.  At the same time, we
should also let them know that they should keep striving to do the next
one better.  In other words, maintain a visible and vocal presence in the
newsgroup, but don't make what has already been pointed out as baseless
accusations and unrealistic goals.  You only annoy other sim racers and
make the Papy folks wonder why the hell they even waste their time
writing software for such an unappreciative bunch of ingrates.

--
=========================================================
John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

IGPS (Season 2) Director
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's
shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

And what ymenard, myself and others contend is that a stock car sim using
the same or nearly the same physics engine that powers GPL would not be
anywhere near as hard to "jump-in" and drive as GPL.  A lot of the problems
with GPL lie not in the physics of the game, but rather in the fact these
are 1967 Formula 1 cars that as ymenard stated have over-powered engines,
light weight chassises, no aerodynamics and very very hard *** that
doesn't grip really well.  Thats a far cry from just about any modern race
car.

  My point is if we all sit around here like a bunch of pansies saying "oh
poor Papyrus"  we will continue to be offered substandard arcade games and
the days of high performance realistic racing sims will end.

Chris

Chris

I would really miss my amazing flight shows in GPL, that's for sure! ;^)

l8er
ronny

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

(snip)
(unsnip)

What you fail to recognise is that back in 1967 the cars were *NOT*
considered "overpowered" and the tyres were *NOT* considered crappy!!
In fact, when the 3-litre formula was announced for introduction in 1966, a
cry of delight swept the ranks of the drivers, most of whom considered the
then-current 1500cc engine size as being anything *BUT* "Formula One"!!

It is very easy to be wise and all-seeing through the benefit of the passage
of time.
You are rating something 30+years old on the basis of current technology and
that just doesn't work, I'm afraid.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Agreed......
Unless you consider concorde of course ;-)

Mark

--
Don Burnette
Dburn on Ten
http://members.home.net/d.burnette/Sportsman%204.htm

snip

Now that's funny!