rec.autos.simulators

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

Eldre

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Eldre » Thu, 29 Aug 2002 07:47:48



>You would miss out on the NTFS file-system if you'd dual boot.
>If there is something that you cannot run in the XP environment, probably
>very old hardware, that might be a reason for dual boot.

What's the big draw to NTFS?  File security, yeah - that's useful for an office
machine.  But a HOME system...?  I don't see it.

Eldred
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likthenut

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by likthenut » Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:26:45

Performance..  The Diskeeper folks published some performance results. NTFS
was fastest followed by FAT and then FAT32. The best cluster size was 4K.
512byte clusters (default for fat32) was worst. They found that a disk
intensive task moved "from FAT-32 512-byte clusters to NTFS 4K-byte clusters
makes the job run in one fifth the time!"
Recovery..  NTFS provides the ability to recover from file system errors and
perform sector sparing to remap data to good clusters and mark bad clusters
as unusable. Using a method called hot fixing, every storage device write is
monitored and written sectors are checked for integrity. If the verification
fails, the corrupted or questionable sectors are flagged, and the data is
rewritten to another sector(s) on the disk. Sector hot fixing is performed
automatically by the file system and does not report error messages to any
applications. NTFS also logs all changes to the file system so that changes
may be undone or reapplied if a discrepancy is found or if a system failure
or power loss causes damage.

There are many more advantages of NTFS over Fat32/16 but most don't effect a
typical home user.  Disk quotas, single recycle bin, compression,
encryption.

Mitch




> >You would miss out on the NTFS file-system if you'd dual boot.
> >If there is something that you cannot run in the XP environment, probably
> >very old hardware, that might be a reason for dual boot.

> What's the big draw to NTFS?  File security, yeah - that's useful for an
office
> machine.  But a HOME system...?  I don't see it.

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank:+8.09
> N2002 Rank:+22.329

> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Uwe Schuerkam

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Uwe Schuerkam » Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:20:12


> Does LFS, F12002 and GPL Run on Linux yet ?   :-)

GPL works using WINE, I don't know / haven't tested the others.
However using WINE is only a short term solution because it
still locks developers into the WIN32 API. I'd much rather see
more games developed for Linux and / or any open API natively
(Racer is a good example even though Ruud decided *not* to use
readily available cross-platform libraries like SDL which would
have saved him a lot of work IMHO).

It's encouraging to see Papy still support OpenGL in their
recent sims, that's the first step on the road to freedom from
monopolies and proprietary API lock-in.

Cheers,

uwe

--
mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
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John Simmon

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by John Simmon » Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:27:30




> > Does LFS, F12002 and GPL Run on Linux yet ?   :-)

> GPL works using WINE, I don't know / haven't tested the others.
> However using WINE is only a short term solution because it
> still locks developers into the WIN32 API. I'd much rather see
> more games developed for Linux and / or any open API natively
> (Racer is a good example even though Ruud decided *not* to use
> readily available cross-platform libraries like SDL which would
> have saved him a lot of work IMHO).

> It's encouraging to see Papy still support OpenGL in their
> recent sims, that's the first step on the road to freedom from
> monopolies and proprietary API lock-in.

> Cheers,

> uwe

Don't kid yoursel.  Microsoft knows this, and is currently working to
kill OpenGL.  It may not be widely known, or even obvious, but you can
count on them wanting to see openGL dead and buried on the Windows
platform because it competes with their own technology.

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Uwe Schuerkam

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Uwe Schuerkam » Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:36:50


> Don't kid yoursel.  Microsoft knows this, and is currently working to
> kill OpenGL.  

So what are you going to do about it, sit back and watch your
computing freedom go down the gutter??? Naaa, not me ;-)

While I know I am fighting windmills, I still have hopes that
we'll laugh about MS a decade from now down the road. They
might still exist as a company, but hopefully not as that 900
pound gorilla they are now, *and* with better manners{1]

Cheers,

Uwe

[1]: I'll have to remember to look this post up in google ten
years from now ;-)

--
mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
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Larr

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Larr » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:13:01

They never really did fix the shut-down bug.  They _improved_ it, but didn't
fix it.  The patches they released were only partially effective.

-Larry


Larr

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Larr » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:52

Because in terms of stability and compatibility, SE can't touch the
original.

SE has inherent design flaws that drive me nuts and Microsoft never did fix
them.

The first is the ever-present shut-down hangs.

The second is that deal where if you start clicking on things after startup
BEFORE the hour-glass goes completely away Win98SE goes into some stupified
crash-prone state that can only be resolved by restarting again and leaving
it alone until the hour-glass is completely gone at startup.

I've also seen far more Registry explosions with SE than the Original, and
far more Driver issues.

That's just a partial list.  It's enough.

-Larry



> > Well, in all honesty, Win98 (I refuse to use SE) is more compatible than
XP.

> Curious, why do you refuse to run SE ?

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> http://www.theuspits.com

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--

Larr

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Larr » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:52

I continue to disagree, Goy.

Windows 98 Original with ALL of the patches from Windows Update is still
more reliable than SE is, and with all the patches applied is pretty much
just as up to date.

-Larry



> > "Goy Larsen"  wrote
> > > Curious, why do you refuse to run SE ?

> > Maybe it's because someone at MS (jokingly) referred to it as Sucker
> > Edition. Remember the 'shut-down bug'?  When it first came out, many
people
> > couldn't shut it down. It would just restart. People wondered how a bug
that
> > obvious could get out in the released version. Don't those people at MS
ever
> > shut down their computers? My guess is, they don't. They just wait for
them
> > to crash and then hit reset.
> > I must admit that I've been running SE on one computer now for the past
3
> > months, but I've had it since it came out and just refused to use it for
> > several reasons. With all the service patches out now, though, it seems
ok.

> Ok......I still don't quite get it though, SE was an improvement over
> the original edition, several bugs where fixed, and although some new
> ones where introduced, such as the old shutdown bug from Win95, the
> network bug, not the shutdown/restart thing, I thought most people
> agreed that Win98 SE was the better of the 9x OS's ?

> Oh, and I also wonder what they called ME, jokingly or otherwise

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> http://www.theuspits.com

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--

Larr

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Larr » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:52

Frankly, in a way I agree.

NTFS has it's advantages, and it's disadvantages.  The worst disadvantage is
the inability to get to the drive from the DOS level (yeah, I know about the
third-party tools but most mom's & pop's aren't into that sort of thing).

I still run NTFS though simply because I don't have a real reason not to.

Of course on the Win2K servers at home they run NTFS because I _want_ the
security it offers.

FAT-32 is actually faster unless you load it down with tens of thousands of
files.  There is a point (somewhere) where NTFS starts to perform better as
you add so many files.

-Larry




> What's the big draw to NTFS?  File security, yeah - that's useful for an
office
> machine.  But a HOME system...?  I don't see it.

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank:+8.09
> N2002 Rank:+22.329

> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Larr

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Larr » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:52

Well, I have a Mac too (ducking)  :)  LCD iMac G4.

I just installed Jaguar on it yesterday.  While I still have gripes about
the pricing system used, it's an awesome upgrade.  The performance
improvements alone are astonishing (if you have recent hardware, that is).
MacOS X 10.2 is really a hard-core OS and it's a shame that more don't
experience it.  I thing that is slowly changing, though (Despite the current
stupid 'switch' Ad campaign).

Anyway, back to MS.

WPA has pissed on me FIVE times so far.  For such a 'benign' and 'If your
legal it won't be a problem' technology, it sure is a pain in the ass to
THIS legal user.

Two, and possibly three of the times there was ZERO hardware changes made.
I was simply updating drivers and it pissed on me and I had to call
Microsoft to get permission again to use my paid-for operating system.  That
just burns me up.

One time it just popped for no apparant reason.  Started up,. and the stupid
activation nonsense kicked in.  This was months after the original
installation and activation.

And it triggered during one hardware change once.  When I upgraded the Video
card.  It's not supposed to do that either.

Bastards.

-Larry




> >Well, in all honesty, Win98 (I refuse to use SE) is more compatible than
XP.

> >However, overall, I prefer XP.  It runs everything I currently like to
run,
> >and it sure is a hell of a lot more stable.

> >The only thing I don't like about XP is all the built-in ***I don't
want
> >and the digital leash they have stuck up yer butt.

> >But, I tolerate it because the good outweighs the bad.

> >-Larry

> I agree Larry, XP *really* pisses me off sometimes. The digital leash
> is disgusting and an insult to us all. If we wanted a monopoly owned
> PC we all would have bought Mac's in the first place. Maybe Mac's
> really will take over one day in the near future because all I see is
> MS shooting themselves in the foot with these bullying tactics they
> have resorted to and Mac's really are superior. If I had to choose
> between two monopolistic OS's I would take Mac. I do have Linux too
> though but that doesn't run my favourite games. Same problem with
> Mac's.

Larr

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Larr » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:53

For those that don't want Linux, but want the power and stability of Unix,
don't underestimate MacOS X.  Especially the just-released 10.2 (Jaguar)
version.

It deserves FAR more credit than it gets, but that is slowly changing over
time.  It gains further respect with each release, and it's truly 'ready for
prime time' after the 10.2 release.

-Larry


Larr

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Larr » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:53

I think a certain game developer will have something to say about that.

I won't mention any names, though (Carmack).

-Larry





> > > Does LFS, F12002 and GPL Run on Linux yet ?   :-)

> > GPL works using WINE, I don't know / haven't tested the others.
> > However using WINE is only a short term solution because it
> > still locks developers into the WIN32 API. I'd much rather see
> > more games developed for Linux and / or any open API natively
> > (Racer is a good example even though Ruud decided *not* to use
> > readily available cross-platform libraries like SDL which would
> > have saved him a lot of work IMHO).

> > It's encouraging to see Papy still support OpenGL in their
> > recent sims, that's the first step on the road to freedom from
> > monopolies and proprietary API lock-in.

> > Cheers,

> > uwe

> Don't kid yoursel.  Microsoft knows this, and is currently working to
> kill OpenGL.  It may not be widely known, or even obvious, but you can
> count on them wanting to see openGL dead and buried on the Windows
> platform because it competes with their own technology.

> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> RASCAR Roster
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

Mitch_

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Mitch_ » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 07:06:45

Why can't a port of Jaguar be developed for the X86?  It is based on the
Linux kernel no?  Now that would be great, MS ends up falling to apple not
because Apple hardware but rather an Apple OS :)

WPA has gotten me numerous times also.  I finally just did a base install,
created an image and I'm now done with WPA.  Supposedly WPA uses the vendor
ID's of key hardware and should only prompt for WPA when you change 5 ID's
in any re-install.  Reality is quite different though.

Those ad's are really annoying arent they?  Gee I'm too dum to use a PC, so
I use an Apple... Gimme a break Steve...

Mitch


> Well, I have a Mac too (ducking)  :)  LCD iMac G4.

> I just installed Jaguar on it yesterday.  While I still have gripes about
> the pricing system used, it's an awesome upgrade.  The performance
> improvements alone are astonishing (if you have recent hardware, that is).
> MacOS X 10.2 is really a hard-core OS and it's a shame that more don't
> experience it.  I thing that is slowly changing, though (Despite the
current
> stupid 'switch' Ad campaign).

> Anyway, back to MS.

> WPA has pissed on me FIVE times so far.  For such a 'benign' and 'If your
> legal it won't be a problem' technology, it sure is a pain in the ass to
> THIS legal user.

> Two, and possibly three of the times there was ZERO hardware changes made.
> I was simply updating drivers and it pissed on me and I had to call
> Microsoft to get permission again to use my paid-for operating system.
That
> just burns me up.

> One time it just popped for no apparant reason.  Started up,. and the
stupid
> activation nonsense kicked in.  This was months after the original
> installation and activation.

> And it triggered during one hardware change once.  When I upgraded the
Video
> card.  It's not supposed to do that either.

> Bastards.

> -Larry




> > >Well, in all honesty, Win98 (I refuse to use SE) is more compatible
than
> XP.

> > >However, overall, I prefer XP.  It runs everything I currently like to
> run,
> > >and it sure is a hell of a lot more stable.

> > >The only thing I don't like about XP is all the built-in ***I don't
> want
> > >and the digital leash they have stuck up yer butt.

> > >But, I tolerate it because the good outweighs the bad.

> > >-Larry

> > I agree Larry, XP *really* pisses me off sometimes. The digital leash
> > is disgusting and an insult to us all. If we wanted a monopoly owned
> > PC we all would have bought Mac's in the first place. Maybe Mac's
> > really will take over one day in the near future because all I see is
> > MS shooting themselves in the foot with these bullying tactics they
> > have resorted to and Mac's really are superior. If I had to choose
> > between two monopolistic OS's I would take Mac. I do have Linux too
> > though but that doesn't run my favourite games. Same problem with
> > Mac's.

Eldre

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Eldre » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 08:52:43



>Because in terms of stability and compatibility, SE can't touch the
>original.

Are you KIDDIN' me??

*Rarely*...

I click on stuff all the time before it's 'finished'. (I'm impatient)  I
haven't experiences that particular "feature".

You must have had something else funky on your system.  For me, SE is MUCH more
stable than original 98, and it's stable enough that I don't need to upgrade my
home system to 2000 yet.  I won't even let XP in the flippin' DOOR.<g>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.09
N2002 Rank:+22.329

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Larr

ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims

by Larr » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 10:08:34

Eldred,

Not my system because I refuse to run it.

I had to support 10,000 users running that POS before we made the switch to
Win2K.  Still have a thousand or so still running it.

The shut-down and startup bugs were issues I had to work on every day, day
in and day out.

Believe me, I understand Win98SE :)

-Larry




> >Because in terms of stability and compatibility, SE can't touch the
> >original.

> Are you KIDDIN' me??

> >SE has inherent design flaws that drive me nuts and Microsoft never did
fix
> >them.

> >The first is the ever-present shut-down hangs.

> *Rarely*...

> >The second is that deal where if you start clicking on things after
startup
> >BEFORE the hour-glass goes completely away Win98SE goes into some
stupified
> >crash-prone state that can only be resolved by restarting again and
leaving
> >it alone until the hour-glass is completely gone at startup.

> I click on stuff all the time before it's 'finished'. (I'm impatient)  I
> haven't experiences that particular "feature".

> >I've also seen far more Registry explosions with SE than the Original,
and
> >far more Driver issues.

> >That's just a partial list.  It's enough.

> You must have had something else funky on your system.  For me, SE is MUCH
more
> stable than original 98, and it's stable enough that I don't need to
upgrade my
> home system to 2000 yet.  I won't even let XP in the flippin' DOOR.<g>

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank:+8.09
> N2002 Rank:+22.329

> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.


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