rec.autos.simulators

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

Gregor Vebl

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Gregor Vebl » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Sure it's not necessary to understand something to look good. It's just
that some things (like F1 cars) do not look good as such, but only after
understanding them. You associate speed, power and cornering ability
with them. You imagine sitting in them and how they would feel when you
tried to trail-brake them and then power out of a corner. A female
friend of mine saw a (1997, I think) Ferrari F1 car up close that was on
exhibition here and she said it looks nothing special, cheap in fact due
to its plasticky looks. I, on the other hand, marveled at the rear
wishbones, air intakes and the sticky looking *** on the wheels. We
would, on the other hand, probably both agree that a McLaren F1 road car
does, indeed, look good.

Yet quite the opposite applies sometimes; would women look as good if
you thoroughly understood them? Now there's a thought. :)

-Gregor


> It is not necessary, Gregor, to "understand" something before it looks good.

> I don't, and never will, understand women but by heavens mate, a LOT of them
> look pretty ***y good from where I'm sitting!!! :-)

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

Slic

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Slic » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Where you at BK? The Beach?

--
Oli
BeoRocket Racing
http://www.racesimcentral.net/


David G Fishe

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by David G Fishe » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I loooove the way the current F1 cars look. Fascinating too.

David G Fisher


> I know it would be very cool and all...but to me if you stripped off all
of
> the paint I would have a hard time telling one car from another (aside
from
> high/low nose), what with all of the wings and scoops and all...IMO modern
> F1 cars are way too 'busy', too many wings and scoops and diffusers and
> what-have-you and thingamajiggers and whatzamahoozits.  IRL and CART cars
> are, on the other hand, much smoother and simpler.  No extra wings stuck
on
> here or there just to try to get that little tiny bit more at the
sacrifice
> of every last bit of looks.

> --
> Kirk Lane

> GPLRank: 229.48
> ICQ: 28171652
> AIM: Kirker64
> (IM me twice so I can reply...using a beta client)

> "The time has come for me to kill this game
> Now open wide and say my name"
> - "Space Lord", Monster Magnet


> > I hate when I just oppose what people say... but you can!
> > Besides if things like car shapes are left out makes you wonder what
else
> > has been left out!
> > Such as the pace lap, red flags and many more...
> > Still I have my hopes up!

> > Oli
> > BEOROCKET Racing: www.beorocket.co.yu



> > > I've seen lots of complaints about all the cars in GP3 having the same
> > exact
> > > car shape.  What's the gripe?  It's not THAT important at all.  You
> can't
> > tell
> > > the difference between the shape of a Ferrari and a Benetton at 180
mph
> > anyway!
> > >  :)

> > > -----------------------------------------
> > > Dan Belcher
> > > Team Racing Unlimited
> > > http://simcrash.00game.com

Bruce Kennewel

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Bruce Kennewel » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00

No....you've missed the point entirely.

I don't understand surrealism but I love a lot of the art.
I don't understand how the universe works but images of galaxies and nebulae
and planets are gorgeous.
I understand, to varying degrees of knowledge, how current F1 cars work and
why they look like they do but they STILL look ugly to me.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


> Sure it's not necessary to understand something to look good. It's just
> that some things (like F1 cars) do not look good as such, but only after
> understanding them. You associate speed, power and cornering ability
> with them. You imagine sitting in them and how they would feel when you
> tried to trail-brake them and then power out of a corner. A female
> friend of mine saw a (1997, I think) Ferrari F1 car up close that was on
> exhibition here and she said it looks nothing special, cheap in fact due
> to its plasticky looks. I, on the other hand, marveled at the rear
> wishbones, air intakes and the sticky looking *** on the wheels. We
> would, on the other hand, probably both agree that a McLaren F1 road car
> does, indeed, look good.

> Yet quite the opposite applies sometimes; would women look as good if
> you thoroughly understood them? Now there's a thought. :)

> -Gregor


> > It is not necessary, Gregor, to "understand" something before it looks
good.

> > I don't, and never will, understand women but by heavens mate, a LOT of
them
> > look pretty ***y good from where I'm sitting!!! :-)

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------

Bruce Kennewel

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Bruce Kennewel » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00

HAAAA! It's winter here. Oli.....right now minus 5 degrees Celcius so no, I
wasn't at the beach!

I was referring to the Pirelli calendar (from 1983) that I have adorning my
study wall.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


> Where you at BK? The Beach?

> --
> Oli
> BeoRocket Racing
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/



> > It is not necessary, Gregor, to "understand" something before it looks
> good.

> > I don't, and never will, understand women but by heavens mate, a LOT of
> them
> > look pretty ***y good from where I'm sitting!!! :-)

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------

Gregor Vebl

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Gregor Vebl » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> No....you've missed the point entirely.

> I don't understand surrealism but I love a lot of the art.
> I don't understand how the universe works but images of galaxies and nebulae
> and planets are gorgeous.
> I understand, to varying degrees of knowledge, how current F1 cars work and
> why they look like they do but they STILL look ugly to me.

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

I don't think we are disagreeing here. I am just claiming there are
different ways towards aesthetics. Sometimes the beauty of an event is
in the experience of the event itself, and this is the beauty that
usually strikes us most. This is, I think, what you are talking about.

Yet sometimes the beauty comes from seeing where and how an event came
about. This can have just a strong effect as the impression of a
beautiful event, but requires knowledge behind it to enjoy.  Still,
sometimes such appreciation of, for example, art can degenerate into
something really strange. Have you ever listened to music experts
discussing some piece only the author could love? They will speak about
minutae that so easily escape the ears of a casual listener, and they
would rave about those for hours. Sometimes they (usually the
self-proclaimed experts, though, not the real ones) even don't care how
the piece may sound overall.

True great art is able to fascinate on all levels, though. You said you
do not understand surrealism (which I don't believe, though :) ), but
you are fascinated by the paintings. Yet understanding the motivations
behind the painting and the details in it, and at the same time seeing
the overall result is where the greatest beauty lies.

And this does not apply to art specifically. You also mention the
galaxies and nebulae. They are awesome in its own right. I also consider
myself lucky to be able to know quite a lot about their origin and
dynamics as well, and that makes it all even more fascinating for me!
Or, when I start explaining to people how the rainbow comes about, they
would ask me, as a physicist, how can I even enjoy its beauty when I
analyze it so much? I tell them that knowing how it comes about makes me
even more fascinated about the event. It reaches me on both the visceral
and intellectual level, and that's what makes it even more beautiful to
me.

Back to F1 cars; they fascinate mostly on the intellectual level, while
as an overall shape they are rather messy. It is then up to the
individual which aspect of aesthetics they are most susceptible to, and
this is where we disagree.

But we all know that aesthetical preferences of individuals cannot
really be discussed. It just might be that the F1 cars look plain ugly
to you and not to me, and that's it ! :)

-Gregor

Slic

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Slic » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00

YEah you're on the other side of the Globe!
I can see that it's Winter there (while the Summer just began here), but I'm
sorry it has to be the 2k year not the '83!

--
Oli
BeoRocket Racing
http://www.beorocket.co.yu/


Steven Crook-Dawkin

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Steven Crook-Dawkin » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:52:21 +0200, Gregor Veble

> >And this does not apply to art specifically. You also mention the
> >galaxies and nebulae. They are awesome in its own right. I also consider
> >myself lucky to be able to know quite a lot about their origin and
> >dynamics as well, and that makes it all even more fascinating for me!
> >Or, when I start explaining to people how the rainbow comes about, they
> >would ask me, as a physicist, how can I even enjoy its beauty when I
> >analyze it so much?

> You read too many Richard Dawkins books   :-)

Glad somebody does!

--
Steven Crook-Dawkins

Jo Hels

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Jo Hels » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:52:21 +0200, Gregor Veble


>And this does not apply to art specifically. You also mention the
>galaxies and nebulae. They are awesome in its own right. I also consider
>myself lucky to be able to know quite a lot about their origin and
>dynamics as well, and that makes it all even more fascinating for me!
>Or, when I start explaining to people how the rainbow comes about, they
>would ask me, as a physicist, how can I even enjoy its beauty when I
>analyze it so much?

You read too many Richard Dawkins books   :-)

JoH

Jo Hels

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Jo Hels » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:02:35 +0100, Steven Crook-Dawkins



>> On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:52:21 +0200, Gregor Veble

>> >And this does not apply to art specifically. You also mention the
>> >galaxies and nebulae. They are awesome in its own right. I also consider
>> >myself lucky to be able to know quite a lot about their origin and
>> >dynamics as well, and that makes it all even more fascinating for me!
>> >Or, when I start explaining to people how the rainbow comes about, they
>> >would ask me, as a physicist, how can I even enjoy its beauty when I
>> >analyze it so much?

>> You read too many Richard Dawkins books   :-)

>Glad somebody does!

>--
>Steven Crook-Dawkins

He reads too many RICHARD Dawkins books.

JoH

Gregor Vebl

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Gregor Vebl » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> You read too many Richard Dawkins books   :-)

> JoH

Actually, I've never read any. But it does seem like I should :).

-Gregor

Jo Hels

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Jo Hels » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:00:16 +0200, Gregor Veble



>> You read too many Richard Dawkins books   :-)

>> JoH

>Actually, I've never read any. But it does seem like I should :).

>-Gregor

He wrote a book of which the title specifically refers to explaining
the mystery of the rainbow.

You must be on his wavelength somewhere.

JoH

Steven Crook-Dawkin

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Steven Crook-Dawkin » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> He reads too many RICHARD Dawkins books.

> JoH

No need to shout - I was joking.
--
Steven Crook-Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York.
Bruce Kennewel

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Bruce Kennewel » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You obviously have not seen the 1983 Pirelli calendar then?! :-)

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


Bruce Kennewel

GP3: Identical Car Shapes

by Bruce Kennewel » Sat, 17 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I think you're getting a bit too deep for me, Gregor!

I simply know what I like and what I don't like.  I like the shape of a 1967
Eagle-Weslake. I even like the shape of a 1989 Ferrari. I don't like the
shape of a 2000 Ferrari.  End of story.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------



> > No....you've missed the point entirely.

> > I don't understand surrealism but I love a lot of the art.
> > I don't understand how the universe works but images of galaxies and
nebulae
> > and planets are gorgeous.
> > I understand, to varying degrees of knowledge, how current F1 cars work
and
> > why they look like they do but they STILL look ugly to me.

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------

> I don't think we are disagreeing here. I am just claiming there are
> different ways towards aesthetics. Sometimes the beauty of an event is
> in the experience of the event itself, and this is the beauty that
> usually strikes us most. This is, I think, what you are talking about.

> Yet sometimes the beauty comes from seeing where and how an event came
> about. This can have just a strong effect as the impression of a
> beautiful event, but requires knowledge behind it to enjoy.  Still,
> sometimes such appreciation of, for example, art can degenerate into
> something really strange. Have you ever listened to music experts
> discussing some piece only the author could love? They will speak about
> minutae that so easily escape the ears of a casual listener, and they
> would rave about those for hours. Sometimes they (usually the
> self-proclaimed experts, though, not the real ones) even don't care how
> the piece may sound overall.

> True great art is able to fascinate on all levels, though. You said you
> do not understand surrealism (which I don't believe, though :) ), but
> you are fascinated by the paintings. Yet understanding the motivations
> behind the painting and the details in it, and at the same time seeing
> the overall result is where the greatest beauty lies.

> And this does not apply to art specifically. You also mention the
> galaxies and nebulae. They are awesome in its own right. I also consider
> myself lucky to be able to know quite a lot about their origin and
> dynamics as well, and that makes it all even more fascinating for me!
> Or, when I start explaining to people how the rainbow comes about, they
> would ask me, as a physicist, how can I even enjoy its beauty when I
> analyze it so much? I tell them that knowing how it comes about makes me
> even more fascinated about the event. It reaches me on both the visceral
> and intellectual level, and that's what makes it even more beautiful to
> me.

> Back to F1 cars; they fascinate mostly on the intellectual level, while
> as an overall shape they are rather messy. It is then up to the
> individual which aspect of aesthetics they are most susceptible to, and
> this is where we disagree.

> But we all know that aesthetical preferences of individuals cannot
> really be discussed. It just might be that the F1 cars look plain ugly
> to you and not to me, and that's it ! :)

> -Gregor


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