rec.autos.simulators

Um, no.

To me, racing is about completing a certain distance in the shortest amount
of time. Those who drive the fastest tend to win. If you wreck, you wreck,
why should we compromise the whole race just for you? You wanna win a fuel
mileage race? Shoulda been a truck driver.

We raced online, with lag, and with people of different skills. The
difference between us and the pickup servers is that we all intended to race
clean. In a green flag only race with these kind of people, we would have
had magnificent races. Just look how fun the road course races were. It was
because we werent driving around with our thumbs up our asses for 2 hours.
Even if you arent on the lead lap, its still fun to race.

With green flags, the field would spread, causing less wrecks, and the
fastest person would win the race. What a ***ing concept.

But no, you had to have your yellows. And look what you got out of it.

It didn't have anything to do with yellows.

Kyle

The problem was there too damn many of them. John was trying to address that
in his own inimitable way. If you accept any ras member into the races
without condition (and I believe you should), car control and racecraft
become serious issues and yellows will flow. This is why I and others
suggested just turning them off. Currently, they have no strategic
significance whatsoever due to the number of them.

In respect of turning off yellows, the coup appears to have changed little.
What does seem to be appreciated though is that if we keep yellows on, the
standard of driving needs to be raised via some form of rookie test. Whilst
I would prefer to turn the yellows off, given that the consensus is that it
forms "such an important part of racing" and that they should remain on, the
rookie test is the only way to go.

As always, I'll give the new system a go. If it results in me still spending
60% race time under yellow I'll reconsider.

Regards

Could a third party sit in and simply watch the racing, especially when new
members race.
Then maybe note who is consitantly causing "yellows".
Once they are located somehow get them "up to speed" before allowing them
back?

"I want you to run 4 laps on what is your race pace with ideal on and
sticking to the line throughout. I then want you to run 2 laps on the high
line all the way round and two laps on the low line."

It might surprise you how many might have difficulty with that simple test.

Regards

So you're suggesting turning one of the self-punishing aspects of the sim
off?

I take it people like driving at racing speed, so, if they mess up, I think
it's only just they get punished by dawdling along for a couple laps (and
having fairly annoyed fellow competitors to deal with after the race).

Anyway, regardless how many there are, they can always play a strategic
role. If there hadn't been a quick yellow after I'd looped it out of 2 at
Michigan (without bringing out a caution) I wouldn't have been in a position
to challenge for 2nd in the end.

Jan.
=---

As for the strategic effect - if you consider soberly, you can't avoid but
coming to the conclusion that this strategic effect is about 0.01% in
significance as compared to the fun-killer effect yellows have if they come
as often as they _often_ (not always) do in RASCAR.

Turning them off would still be the first thing I'd do in RASCAR to increase
the overall fun.

This is of course only my opinion, but I quit racing RASCAR because I got so
bored with the yellows, and for no other reason.

Achim

[snip]

'fraid I just don't get that one Jan. I'm not claiming I never bring out a
yellow (if for no other reason than Colin Harris would be on like a flash to
remind me ;) ) but if I do, and I avoid major damage, I've effectively 'got
away with it'. If there were no yellows, as I recovered from my spin I would
see Tim et al disappearing into the distance and out of my reach (like he
wouldn't be anyway). This is the punishment.

I think I'm rambling a bit now. Joachim summarises it better than me I
think. I think my position is clear on this (as is yours) so I won't keep
banging on about it. As long as something is done to reduce the time spent
under yellow I'll live with it. I just fear it ain't going to happen.

I also think it's important to realise the different perspectives in this
matter. I'm a little on the weird side. I like maximum challenge, no aids,
100% races - in short, a couple of hours of intensity is what I'm after.
Others may actually enjoy brief blasts interspersed with 'breathers' where a
laugh or two can be had (assuming those chatting under yellow are not liable
to execution). Yet others may enjoy the 'lottery effect' of a few yellows in
a race - the strategic effect. This latter example is probably the nearest
to true NASCAR simulation but, in my experience, happens infrequently in
RASCAR races. If it were indeed the norm (as it is in my other leagues) I
would also enjoy that.

I did say I'd stop rambling. I hope the latest efforts to cut down on the
yellows is successful - I'll try to do my bit to keep it on the black stuff.

Regards

Once you start talking about skills tests, tryouts, etc. you have
moved beyond what anyone would think of as pickup racing.

Ask yourself how many pickup races you have ever even bothered to join
that had yellows on?  It is a complete waste of time.  Nobody wants to
do it.

I have been in MANY pickup races without yellows on that did not have
intentional spoilers.  As far as I could tell, everybody was trying to
do their best.  Did people ever***up?  Sure.  Did I ever get
caught up in someone elses screwup?  Sure.  Did I ever spend lap after
lap sitting in a parade?  No.  I already do that twice every work day,
why the hell would I bother when I am trying to relax and have a good
time?  Many of these races wound up being very enjoyable after things
settled down.

Your group will get better and the racing will improve if you just
concentrate on running under green for a while.  And stick to wide,
easy tracks.  Bristol and Darlington are miserable races for a lot of
PROs.  Why make it *** yourselves?  You will find that more folks
show up since you are not continually advertising what a miserable
time it was.

Hope you guys can pull it together somehow.  Before now I always
looked forward to the weekly recaps.

Gerald

I actually do practice running less desireable lines (high all the
way around, and low all the way around) just so I have a feeling for
how the car is going to react.  I go as fast as possible while doing
that too, and that kind of practice is why I can run side-by-side
without losing too many spots (if any) as well as not bumping into
anyone.

You haven't as even for minor damage and flatspotted tyres, you're now
pitting under green, getting more than a lap down at most places without any
chance of making that up (unless you spun at the point where you needed to
pit anyway). You haven't gotten away with anything, you've just put yourself
out of the race.

And a racer of lesser calibre than yourself would simply quit and go do
something else, because, let's face it, he doens't have to answer to anybody
for doing so and the race would slowly empty. Or, alternatively, he might
start racing anyone he comes across (to extract some entertainment from the
race), annoying the ***out of the other drivers (I've had that happen to
me in another series this year... I was livid).

Well, it's no use crying over spilled milk. It always boils down to the
drivers anyway, no matter what system is in place. So I suggest you help
motivate people to have more concious, courteous and, therefore, better
races.

As far as I'm concerned, if something is worth simulating, it's worth doing
it properly and accepting the consequences on all levels.

Just don't let go of the intensity under yellow. I don't usually.

Well, in another Bristol race earlier, things went green for nearly 30 laps,
with me being under pressure all the way. I wasn't used to the laundromat
effect yet and must admit I had a tough time of it. I appreciated the
breather there. But it can't be breather, getting up to speed, breather,
etc... either. It's got to strike a balance, then it also strikes a balance
with the different types of driver, IMO.

Exactly why I thought it should be more league-like, but it turned out
differently. Let's just give it a couple races.

Track=good, car=bad, wall=bad. Very simple!! <g>

Jan.
=---

[snip]

Now you're talking. We could call it RANSAM (as in being held to).

TTFN

My goodness, I've got these FFRL guys well-trained!

Any Euros looking for a spot on our roster, btw?