rec.autos.simulators

by **ttam** » Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>> Yeah, but the volume is not proportional to throttle application!

>Frankly I haven't noticed. I guess I am too busy driving and thinking
>how good the game sounds :-) I am constantly amazed at the amount
>if complaints to the Nth degree we have here. I am totally convinced
>that if the game were "fixed" as you would like, someone else would
>come here to complain about something else. It never ends.

Well I'm sure people already know there are replacement sounds
available for F1RS in www.f1racingsim.com . Some of them weren't
working that great, but at least two of them were very good and worked
great. But I can't say the original sounds were that bad compared to
those replacement sounds I tried...

...BUT AT LEAST WE CAN NOW SHUT UP ALL THOSE WHINERS WHO THOUGHT THE
SOUNDS DESTROYED F1RS COMPLETELY. ;^) Just get your favorite
replacement sound if you don't like the original one.

***

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **DPHI** » Thu, 19 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>Frankly I haven't noticed. I guess I am too busy driving and thinking 
>how good the game sounds :-) I am constantly amazed at the amount 
>if complaints to the Nth degree we have here. I am totally convinced 
>that if the game were "fixed" as you would like, someone else would 
>come here to complain about something else. It never ends. 
> 
> 
>-- 
>Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. 
> 

>

NO SHIT! Just drive the thing and shut up! ( Just a joke flamers!) Jeez, there
is so much to like about most of the recent sims ( CPR excluded...) but there
seems to be an inordinant number of complaints.

Papadoc, I have to agree with you about the "sounds" of racing. I've been
*** around racetracks since I was a baby ( 40+ years) and the sounds of the
different engines always get to me. I have a stereo recording I made at Long
Beach during the F1 days just as the Turbo era was beginning, so you can hear
the 12 cyl. Ferraries and Ligiers, the Renault 6 cyl. Turbos, and a shitload of
Ford Cossies. I stick it in the deck every now and then to remind me what real
race engines sounded like! I think my favorite though is a normally aspirated,
full race Porsche flat 6. It sounds like someone is tearing a bedsheet in half
over a stadium PA system! Don

by **Stephen Hinck** » Thu, 19 Mar 1998 04:00:00

A very accurate description (the bed sheet and PA)!. Love the sound myself. I
still think, and I know up front that it sounds a bit "thin", that a World Rally
Group A Celica sounds very nice at decent revs.

Off topic I know but it seemed to flow?

> >Frankly I haven't noticed. I guess I am too busy driving and thinking 
> >how good the game sounds :-) I am constantly amazed at the amount 
> >if complaints to the Nth degree we have here. I am totally convinced 
> >that if the game were "fixed" as you would like, someone else would 
> >come here to complain about something else. It never ends. 
> > 
> > 
> >-- 
> >Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. 
> > 

> >

> NO SHIT! Just drive the thing and shut up! ( Just a joke flamers!) Jeez, there
> is so much to like about most of the recent sims ( CPR excluded...) but there
> seems to be an inordinant number of complaints.

> Papadoc, I have to agree with you about the "sounds" of racing. I've been
>*** around racetracks since I was a baby ( 40+ years) and the sounds of the
> different engines always get to me. I have a stereo recording I made at Long
> Beach during the F1 days just as the Turbo era was beginning, so you can hear
> the 12 cyl. Ferraries and Ligiers, the Renault 6 cyl. Turbos, and a shitload of
> Ford Cossies. I stick it in the deck every now and then to remind me what real
> race engines sounded like! I think my favorite though is a normally aspirated,
> full race Porsche flat 6. It sounds like someone is tearing a bedsheet in half
> over a stadium PA system! Don

--

* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

In a feeble attempt to thwart spammers I have altered my email address.

Remove the obvious bit before replying.

by **David Schi** » Thu, 19 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>One of the most striking things about my first races attended were the
>sounds. Matter of fact I wasnt going to be able to afford going to see
>my first Formula 1 Race because I was broke and the tickets were oh so
>damn expensive. hehhehe....Well the first day of practice at Las Vegas
>and Im working about 2 blocks from the track.....they started up for
>the first practice and a chill went up my back....(turbo days)....and
>I went and got my ticket....I will be extremely surprised when a sim
>captures that....and I will be buying it. The sounds or lack of
>were/are one of my biggest gripes with Indy Car...where is the
>overrun..????

>Pierre

If / when they capture the real sound, you won't have any neighbours
either. :)

F1 in Las Vegas? Never knew F1 was there. I'll have to watch some of
the older re-runs on Speedvision.

DS

by **David Schi** » Thu, 19 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>>> Yeah, but the volume is not proportional to throttle application!

>>Frankly I haven't noticed. I guess I am too busy driving and thinking
>>how good the game sounds :-) I am constantly amazed at the amount
>>if complaints to the Nth degree we have here. I am totally convinced
>>that if the game were "fixed" as you would like, someone else would
>>come here to complain about something else. It never ends.

>Well I'm sure people already know there are replacement sounds
>available for F1RS in www.f1racingsim.com . Some of them weren't
>working that great, but at least two of them were very good and worked
>great. But I can't say the original sounds were that bad compared to
>those replacement sounds I tried...

>...BUT AT LEAST WE CAN NOW SHUT UP ALL THOSE WHINERS WHO THOUGHT THE
>SOUNDS DESTROYED F1RS COMPLETELY. ;^) Just get your favorite
>replacement sound if you don't like the original one.

>***

>http://www.netlife.fi/users/ttammi/

These sound files are a waste of effort IMO, since the real problem as
I see it is the "texture" of the sound. There is no modulation of the
sound and nothing to differentiate an acceleration from a
de-acceleration except a change in pitch. A real engine has many
different harmonics that come into effect as the rpm's change. Also,
there is no modulation of the sound when going over bumps. The sound
is plain with about the same amount of texture as an electric razor.
Substituting sound files change the sound, but they can't provide
different harmonic content over different rpm ranges since that would
require a more elaborate design in the software.

BTW, If you consider these posts about the sound to be whining, then
you'd better shut your ears. And don't bother to buy the next version
of F1RS, because it might have some improvements in it that are a
result of the constructive criticism that people are discussing now.
Personally, I wouldn't bother discussing or criticising anything if I
didn't think the game was worth while in the first place, I simply
wouldn't be playing it.

DS

by **ttam** » Thu, 19 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>These sound files are a waste of effort IMO, since the real problem as
>I see it is the "texture" of the sound. There is no modulation of the
>sound and nothing to differentiate an acceleration from a
>de-acceleration except a change in pitch. A real engine has many
>different harmonics that come into effect as the rpm's change. Also,
>there is no modulation of the sound when going over bumps. The sound
>is plain with about the same amount of texture as an electric razor.
>Substituting sound files change the sound, but they can't provide
>different harmonic content over different rpm ranges since that would
>require a more elaborate design in the software.

Ok, could you tell me which racing sims/games have these "different
harmonic content over different rpm ranges" well implemented as you
are racing, so that I can try them out? So far I've tried for example
CPR demo, TOCA, Psygnosis F1 demo, Ultimate Race Pro, Nascar 2, does
any of these have it? I can't say any of them have made me say "Gee
this is exactly how F1RS should sound". I agree the engine sound in
Ultimate Race Pro is more manly than in F1RS, but I'm not sure F1 cars
should sound like that anyway. ;-)

***

http://www.netlife.fi/users/ttammi/

by **papa..** » Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Excellent example shit I drove the hell out that.....damn. Wish I
could find it now....

PAPADOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...

by **Byron Forbe** » Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> Ok, could you tell me which racing sims/games have these "different
> harmonic content over different rpm ranges" well implemented as you
> are racing, so that I can try them out? So far I've tried for example
> CPR demo, TOCA, Psygnosis F1 demo, Ultimate Race Pro, Nascar 2, does
> any of these have it? I can't say any of them have made me say "Gee
> this is exactly how F1RS should sound". I agree the engine sound in
> Ultimate Race Pro is more manly than in F1RS, but I'm not sure F1 cars
> should sound like that anyway. ;-)

The wierd thing is though that Ubi go to all the trouble of recording
"real" sounds yet dont even have varied volumes for different throttle
applications. I would think this would be very easy to patch and cannot
understand why the haven't/don't. I emailed them about this and a couple
other things and was told they are working on F1RS 2 and my comments
would be forwarded to the team. Looks like support for F1RS ended with
patch 1.07. I don't know that too many people will show a lot of
interest in F1RS 2 since GP3 will no doubt be around by then.

by **Ronald Stoeh** » Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:00:00

snip

> I would think this would be very easy to patch and cannot
> understand why the haven't/don't. I emailed them about this and a couple
> other things and was told they are working on F1RS 2 and my comments
> would be forwarded to the team. Looks like support for F1RS ended with
> patch 1.07. I don't know that too many people will show a lot of
> interest in F1RS 2 since GP3 will no doubt be around by then.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Man, you are an optimist... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

by **Gulube** » Sat, 21 Mar 1998 04:00:00

What makes you think the world is waiting for GP3, I surely am not. If you are
so critical of Ubisoft's first attempt at making an F1 sim (which IMHO waxes
GP2 easily), Why not compare F1rs to GP1 or World Circuit, by using your same
logic. Ubisoft's second attempt will be far better, and it will probably be
released before GP3. My bet is that GP3 will not even be any better than F1rs
(first attempt).

Anyone may disagree, but this is only my opinion.

by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 21 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> snip

> > I would think this would be very easy to patch and cannot
> > understand why the haven't/don't. I emailed them about this and a couple
> > other things and was told they are working on F1RS 2 and my comments
> > would be forwarded to the team. Looks like support for F1RS ended with
> > patch 1.07. I don't know that too many people will show a lot of
> > interest in F1RS 2 since GP3 will no doubt be around by then.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> Man, you are an optimist... ;^)

Now Ronny, you know something we don't know? Got a release date on
F1RS 2? If they release F1RS 2 in the next 12 months they should be
hung. I say this because they should patch F1RS till it's perfect within
it's design parameters instaed of rushing off to start F1RS 2. But these
days, who am I kidding, hahahahahahahahaha!
I would say that if they are truley interested in their reputation
they should address the following with patches

1/ Sounds (volume proportional to throttle application)

2/ Off track physics

3/ HD accessing during first lap out

4/ Rethink menus/save default setups

5/ Fix D3D graphics.

At this point in time I think ICR2 is still the best sim for the PC.
The off track physics just about kills F1RS for me. And CPR is, well,
CPR :)

by **John Walla** » Sat, 21 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>Ok, could you tell me which racing sims/games have these "different
>harmonic content over different rpm ranges" well implemented as you
>are racing, so that I can try them out?

He said "a real engine" not that another sim already did it better.
Just because no-one has done it properly so far doesn't mean that it
shouldn't be set forth as a target.

Quite apart from all that, the engine sound in F1RS really is weedy
and unconvincing in the extreme, and realy lets down all of it's other
excellent qualities.

Cheers!
John

by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 21 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>Quite apart from all that, the engine sound in F1RS really is weedy
>and unconvincing in the extreme, and realy lets down all of it's other
>excellent qualities.

Not surprisingly I disagree. I like the F1RS sounds (except for that
grating downshift sound you sometimes get). But I guess that is
the result of me not being a real racecar driver or something.

--
Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

by **Simo** » Sun, 22 Mar 1998 04:00:00

If you don`t like the engine sound , then go to http://www.f1racingsim.com
there are plenty of new ones to chose from.

>>Ok, could you tell me which racing sims/games have these "different
>>harmonic content over different rpm ranges" well implemented as you
>>are racing, so that I can try them out?

>He said "a real engine" not that another sim already did it better.
>Just because no-one has done it properly so far doesn't mean that it
>shouldn't be set forth as a target.

>Quite apart from all that, the engine sound in F1RS really is weedy
>and unconvincing in the extreme, and realy lets down all of it's other
>excellent qualities.

>Cheers!
>John

by **David Schi** » Sun, 22 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>> > patch 1.07. I don't know that too many people will show a lot of
>> > interest in F1RS 2 since GP3 will no doubt be around by then.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>> Man, you are an optimist... ;^)

> Now Ronny, you know something we don't know? Got a release date on
>F1RS 2? If they release F1RS 2 in the next 12 months they should be
>hung. I say this because they should patch F1RS till it's perfect within
>it's design parameters instaed of rushing off to start F1RS 2. But these
>days, who am I kidding, hahahahahahahahaha!

Sure, but neither you or anyone outside of the development team knows
what the design parameters are, so I'm not expecting any more features
than what was in the original release. The only thing that I require
in a game release is that it doesn't crash on a majority of system
configurations. This has not been entrely achieved (at least on my
system in all areas of the program). If a company feels like
releasing a patch that adds some features, then this is a bonus, but
not something to expect or require.

as well as different samples for accel / de-accel and adding effects
of bumps on the engine rpm.

Also, the general slow-speed spin model seems to be non-existant wrt
the perpetual spinning regardless of accelerator or steering input.

3 and 5 don't affect me but I'm sure that with a P5 and reliance on
D3D, there would be a considerable performance penalty.

As stated above, I think these are all worthy features for a new
version. I could list about a hundred additional effects that I would
like to see in a future simulation, but I'm sure that the development
team that created F1RS is quite capable of thinking of these things as
well. Its just a matter of how much time and resources are available
between needing to generate some income.

I agree about the grass effect, even though I am gradually spending
less time in that environment. :)

I don't mind at all that Ubisoft is working on a new version of the
game as I can understand the need to define a cutoff point after which
any more work is considered a new product. And I don't mind at all
paying $50 per year for a constantly improving and up-to-date F1 sim.

DS

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