ymenard <ymen...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<6l6p28$...@examiner.concentric.net>...
> I understand your point, but I still don't see them here. Just check out
> what Papyrus and TEN are doing with us on the NROS. It's the same thing
that
> Bethsoft is doing, even more. We are constantly upgrading with them the
> system, and let me say there is many activities at PreTEN (beta test
server
> for TEN).
You know I would love to debate this with you but NDA's with several
companies prohit me. All I can say is that you are wrong! The companies you
mention all take a very different approach in dealing with game development
and the approach that Bethesda has decided to undertake is unique! It is
also a huge departure from the way they have done things in the past. If
things continue to develope the way they are I think you will see this
approach
become the norm. With the benefit being better product for us the end user.
> And please, Don is the GOD of the GODS. He is unique in the world, and
only
> crazy people like me can REALLY understand his machiavelic plan to
destroy
> the whole Universe <vbfg> ;-))
> Wow did I say I never tried Burnout ? I only stated that until it doesn't
> have a cockpit view, It cant be a realistic simulator, and only a game.
> IMHO. IIIIMMMHHHOOO. Yeah sure I am somehow always against Bethsoft,
but
> do you really think it's because I don't like the effort. Nope. I am
just
> doing the same thing I did with Microprose, Microsoft and ESPECIALLY
> Papyrus.
If a program realistically models something correctly then it simulates
it. Just because there is no cockpit doesn't make it any less of a
simulation
in terms of drag racing. Yes the eye candy is nice but I would much rather
have the program act realistically! The realism is what we as playtesters
have been trying to achieve. The graphics will come later as will sound.
If I get my way it will have it all.
> If you think I have a too large mouth to help people. well go stick a
shoe
> in it, I don't care. I know what Im doing, and be sure that on the NROS
> newsgroup I have put some great help on resolving some problems in the
> system. You just don't understand that I am not flaming those companies,
> just letting them always awake.
I have never said that you have too large a mouth! I have never said
you don't try and help people. In fact I have the highest regard for those
that
have the patience and take the time to help others. The way I look at it if
you
help solve a persons problem or difficulty in getting the game to work
properly,
they will have that much more time to enjoy it.
There is a fine line between offering constructive criticisms and flaming
a product or a person. You make your point and move on! I personally think
you
have crossed that line on many occasions.
Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect that but if a person
wants to throw the gloves down and challenge someone or something, then you
should be prepared to recieve as well as give.
> Ah ha ! See you don't know everything about this thread. There is a
lenghty
> story with Don about his relation with Papyrus and the beta testing
group.
> Why don't you think he said in another post here "Hehe Frank we must put
you
> beta tester for Bethsoft and buy you a 3dfx card (witch I would be happy
> !)". There is much more here that what you think, and thats why I say
that
> there is some people that don't understand what I said, it's normal.
You're wrong I have heard both sides of the story from both parties
and you don't know the whole story! It hasn't ever posted on ras or Ten
newgroups.
As far as 3dfx, wake up and smell the coffee! Its number 1 whether
you like it or not!
> "Not able to follow the thread" Huh ?? are you serious. I was just some
> place we call an hospital, since I was involved in a car accident. How
> ironic life is ! <g> and you flame me after. You just DON'T UNDERSTAND
my
> relation between Don, Bethsoft and Papyrus.
I may know a lot more about all those parties than you think. But they
can work out their own problems.
> I said I don't have problems with the company, not the title. Another
> misunderstanding. I appreciate the effort pretty much, coming from
people
> where the last racing game was Micro Machine 2. And you continue flaming
me
> with some cheap shots while NOT UNDERSTANDING the whole point.
Ahh, your cheap shots at Don or Burnout are okay but mine against
you are uncalled for!
I do understand the whole point far better than you realize!
> >> And here is another evident post, but for the entire SimRacing
community,
> >> not only targeted at Papyrus. It's not a conspiracy theory about
> >Bethsoft
> >> paying Don for telling stuff like that, but it's close. Just look
about
> >> 2days ago Don posted :
> >> "SHRA goes international !!!" Uh so ? It's the Internet ? that was
soo
> >> evident. It looked like SPAM.
> >> Or better :
> >> "ORDER BURNOUT. CALL 1-800-567-5309". Geeze no wonder why I wrote in
this
> >> header "This infomercial was paid in part by Bethsoft Inc."
As was discussed in another thread many areas have not been able to get
the game. Don responded by offering a way to get the game! Yes Don gets
exuberant
at times and is an emotional person. But if you don't like his posts just
ignore them. But
if you want respond, then I feel I can as well. I don't always agree with
Don but he has
made some very valuable contributions in some areas and pissed people off
in others.
But none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes and have flaws.
You also wrongly assume we are being paid to PR Burnout! We aren't we
just like what we see going on behind the scenes and that can't be talked
about. You
aren't privy to any of this, so maybe it is hard for you to understand why
we are so
enthusiastic.
> See, another flame WITHOUT UNDERSTAND THE POINT. Cheap shots. We had a
> good thread with some argument until you start playing the immature and
> writing cheap flame shots. Sorry, but I have no need to argue with this
> since you don't UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE POINT about this thread.
If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen! Why do you
persist in telling me I don't understand the whole point. Is it possible
that
it is you who doesn't?
> >> Haha over-quoting. I know that would be the perfect world. There is
no
> >> white-black in SimRacing, it's all grey. There is no perfect game or
"too
> >> crap to exist" game. They all have good or bad points, and they can
be
> >big
> >> or little bad/good points.
> >> There is a limit still. Don't pass all year doing patches, or you will
> >never
> >> be competitive against the others. I remember Mike Lescault from
Papyrus
> >> saying "Heck we could continue to make Nascar1 better with patches
today,
> >> but what would be the benifit ? Those people who work on patches
aren't
> >> there to make a newer better version 2".
Not to knock Mike, as he his a nice guy! But Mike once personally
told me that "a drag racing game would never cut it and there was no market
for
it!" Well I disagreed with him then and think that I have been vindicated
by the
demand that seems to be there, judging by the sales of Burnout and the
upcoming
NHRA Drag Racing. Maybe only us North American and Aussie fans would agree
but there are a lot of drag racing fans!
But to get back to your point, why would any company keep patching a game!
They are in business to make money and turn a profit. This isn't going to
happen if they
are going to survive. You fix your serious flaws and move on to the next
project. The fact
that a company spends the time and effort to get the sim or game right
speaks well of the
fact they want to make the end user happy. So he will continue to buy their
products.
> > Sorry, I over quoted you! Its so easy to get carried away with
> >your sound reasoning at times.
> Hmm, so I won this point. Good.
I was being facetious!
> >> Yep, that true. Even if Don will never said it publicly, I KNOW that.
I'm
> >> sure he's ROTF reading this presently. Heh Don, am I true ;-) It's
just
> >> that Mr. Everybody won't really all understand my post, it's more a
> >> semi-opinion to Don Wilshe, Ahhh the Don King of Racing.
> > Some day I will take mind up reading so that I too can follow the
> >line of thinking you are using.
> See, thats why I don't know why you flame me when you don't know the
whole
> deal about me, Don, Bethsoft and Papyrus. There is soo more things than
you
> think. And you flame me like shit because you don't understand what I am
> saying. Sorry but I think it's stupid.
Hmm, your the only one I don't understand! My appologies!
> >> Same thing here. And writing with 1 arm (the other is fractured at
> >> 2places). And Im still able to race with my wheel !! (can't brake or
> >press
> >> gas, my knees hurt too much). So I have my GP1 wheel with brake on the
> >left
> >> peddle, gas on the left red button, and steering with the same hand
!!)
Sorry, to hear about your accident! Hopefully, you will recover to
your old self soon! :-)
> I am just writing this from my opinion, but there is soo much more than
you
> think, and thats why you don't understand what I am saying sometimes. It
> should be only me and Don in this thread, for obvious reasons. No need
to
> start doing cheap shots to me about past experiences I did. We should
had
> stayed with mature arguments, thing that I stayed in.
So this is a personal vendetta against Don! Gee, I will bow out as I
don't want to intrude on your private discussion.
The old addage is you live by the sword you die by the sword! And
the pen is mightier than the sword. or so I'm told! :-)
Get well soon!
