rec.autos.simulators

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

zed, not z

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by zed, not z » Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:58:19

On Sat, 28 Jul 2001 21:32:10 -0400, "ymenard"


>I'll say "good", which is already at least on-par with most of the video
>card drivers on the net.  And considering it's a very new chipset, the
>future is quite bright I say.

I might consider KyroIII, but not II as I already have a GF2 (not mx).
Gregor Vebl

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Gregor Vebl » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:07:55

That's why a MX card might be better suited to a lower range processor
than the Kyro. In games that support T&L, the improvement is drastic
with an MX as it offloads the processor, making the games that are to a
certain extent processor time bound on such a system run much faster.
Nascar 4 is definitely one of them. In contrast, a higher range
processor will happily do the T&L calc without hiccups, and that's where
the Kyro II will shine as it's effective fillrate is higher than that of
the MX because of the smart algorithms.

-Gregor


> The Kyro II card is a much superior card to an MX-type GeForce.  It's closer
> to a GTS then a MX in terms of power.  Any current video cards will be much
> better with a higher processor then just a 450mhz (I know my P3-500 really
> needs to be changed to a P3-1000 to get full power off my Kyro II).

ymenar

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by ymenar » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:37:23


> That's why a MX card might be better suited to a lower range processor
> than the Kyro. In games that support T&L, the improvement is drastic
> with an MX as it offloads the processor, making the games that are to a
> certain extent processor time bound on such a system run much faster.
> Nascar 4 is definitely one of them. In contrast, a higher range
> processor will happily do the T&L calc without hiccups, and that's where
> the Kyro II will shine as it's effective fillrate is higher than that of
> the MX because of the smart algorithms.

I agree with that.  I mentioned that to him via email.  I bought the card
considering that I *will* upgrade my CPU soon to a P3-1000.

Still, the average T&L game is normally very PC-consuming (even more in the
future), therefore older computers even with the increase of fps won't
really enjoy the game at it's most.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Gregor Vebl

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Gregor Vebl » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:46:04

Lucky you, no upgrade to be seen for me in the near future ;).

Of course, all the games that are now coming out with T&L are also
consuming with respect to pure PC power as things moved on. A card that
can do fast T&L (such as the MX) will at least enable one to run such
games without a serious upgrade, but for full enjoyment a complete
overhaul of the system is needed.

With that said, I run very few games, and those that I currently do the
MX suits me nicely. I just won't be buying many new games until the
(distant) upgrade :).

-Gregor


> I agree with that.  I mentioned that to him via email.  I bought the card
> considering that I *will* upgrade my CPU soon to a P3-1000.

> Still, the average T&L game is normally very PC-consuming (even more in the
> future), therefore older computers even with the increase of fps won't
> really enjoy the game at it's most.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Jason Mond

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Jason Mond » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 04:08:17

Don't bother with the Hecules Prophet 4500 (KyroII) if you have a V5 and
race GPL and N4.  I thought to myself, "Hey, if it can to 1024x768x32
with 2xFSAA I'd be happy."  Well, without much "tweeking" it just barely
does 800x600 (no FSAA) with GPL.  Falling to 30ish FPS on the start from
the back at Kyalami.  In N4, I've had to turn many things down which
were fully maxed with the V5 at 800x600 2xFSAA.  The KyroII does plain
800x600x32 but struggles with 42 cars drawn and about 25% details.


The KyroII *is* really good for first-person-shooters like Tribes2 (30
to 100 fps with most things maxed!), The Moon Project estimates 60fps at
1280x1024x32 and ran smoothly after a quick test.  

It worked out of the box for 95% of my stuff.  MBTR falls to 20fps a bit
more than I'd like at 800x600x32.  Insane had bad horizon corruption.
Just forget about using FSAA on anything 800x600 or above :(

Does anyone know how to get mirrors every 2,3,4 frame in GPL with the
D3D driver?  I had it to every 2 with the Glide driver and I'm sure it
will help the scoring for the KyroII.

I just wish the GF3's weren't $640ish dollars! :(  I might have to break
down and get a GF2 since I can't use FSAA on the KyroII anyway.

Jason.


> Kyro II looks to be pretty nice check this review out. Myself I'm sticking
> with my V5 card for now, but if I where looking for another card I think I
> would take a hard look at this card.

> http://www.soundcardcentral.com/reviews/video/Prophet4500/page1.htm





> > >They are in the same price range as the mx cards. And they are faster.
> Yes
> > >they do suck compared to a geforce 3. Everything sucks compared to a gf3.

> > More importantly, how are the drivers? Doesn't matter how fast a card
> > is if it has crappy drivers. I've heard there are problems with the
> > KyroII drivers, but I don't have one so don't really know.

--
Jason Monds
http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
http://www.racersdomain.com  - Race hosting.
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)
zed, not z

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by zed, not z » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:32:51

On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:08:17 -0600, Jason Monds


>I just wish the GF3's weren't $640ish dollars! :(  

They aren't $640ish, more like $350ish. Unless you are paying in CAD.
Jason Mond

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Jason Mond » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:37:04

Correct on the CAD ... It's actually $608 CAD.  What a deal! :)


> On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:08:17 -0600, Jason Monds

> >I just wish the GF3's weren't $640ish dollars! :(

> They aren't $640ish, more like $350ish. Unless you are paying in CAD.

--
Jason Monds
http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
http://www.racersdomain.com  - Race hosting.
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)
Jason Mond

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Jason Mond » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:02:30

I'm happy to say with some tweeking (Setting to 4x AGP instead of 2x and
adding a AGP aperature of 16mb) I easily doubled my FPS in MBTR in
800x600x32 from 20-100 to 40-170fps (relative low detail settings
however).  GPL runs at 1024x768 at 32-34 fps at the start of Kyalami but
maxes at 36 very shortly.  Certainly drivable on the starts.  Drawing
mirrors every 2 frames should help keep it maxed.  I even ran N4 at
800x600x32 2xHorizontalFSAA during my series race and it was from 29 to 40
fps in the***pit -- drivable as well.

Now I just need more tweaking tools :)

Jason.


> Don't bother with the Hecules Prophet 4500 (KyroII) if you have a V5 and
> race GPL and N4.  I thought to myself, "Hey, if it can to 1024x768x32
> with 2xFSAA I'd be happy."  Well, without much "tweeking" it just barely
> does 800x600 (no FSAA) with GPL.  Falling to 30ish FPS on the start from
> the back at Kyalami.  In N4, I've had to turn many things down which
> were fully maxed with the V5 at 800x600 2xFSAA.  The KyroII does plain
> 800x600x32 but struggles with 42 cars drawn and about 25% details.



--
Jason Monds                            
http://www.racesimcentral.net/ - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/  - Race hosting.
(Remove 'no spork' when replying)
Saint Nicholas of Denve

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Saint Nicholas of Denve » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:38:43

Are you kidding me, I have the Hercules Prophet 4500 and even with everything
maxed out and full screen anti-aliasing I get excellent frame, no matter what.

my specs

AMD Athlon 750mhz
256mb RAM
Hercules Prophet 4500 64mb

Nick


> Don't bother with the Hecules Prophet 4500 (KyroII) if you have a V5 and
> race GPL and N4.  I thought to myself, "Hey, if it can to 1024x768x32
> with 2xFSAA I'd be happy."  Well, without much "tweeking" it just barely
> does 800x600 (no FSAA) with GPL.  Falling to 30ish FPS on the start from
> the back at Kyalami.  In N4, I've had to turn many things down which
> were fully maxed with the V5 at 800x600 2xFSAA.  The KyroII does plain
> 800x600x32 but struggles with 42 cars drawn and about 25% details.


> The KyroII *is* really good for first-person-shooters like Tribes2 (30
> to 100 fps with most things maxed!), The Moon Project estimates 60fps at
> 1280x1024x32 and ran smoothly after a quick test.

> It worked out of the box for 95% of my stuff.  MBTR falls to 20fps a bit
> more than I'd like at 800x600x32.  Insane had bad horizon corruption.
> Just forget about using FSAA on anything 800x600 or above :(

> Does anyone know how to get mirrors every 2,3,4 frame in GPL with the
> D3D driver?  I had it to every 2 with the Glide driver and I'm sure it
> will help the scoring for the KyroII.

> I just wish the GF3's weren't $640ish dollars! :(  I might have to break
> down and get a GF2 since I can't use FSAA on the KyroII anyway.

> Jason.


> > Kyro II looks to be pretty nice check this review out. Myself I'm sticking
> > with my V5 card for now, but if I where looking for another card I think I
> > would take a hard look at this card.

> > http://www.soundcardcentral.com/reviews/video/Prophet4500/page1.htm





> > > >They are in the same price range as the mx cards. And they are faster.
> > Yes
> > > >they do suck compared to a geforce 3. Everything sucks compared to a gf3.

> > > More importantly, how are the drivers? Doesn't matter how fast a card
> > > is if it has crappy drivers. I've heard there are problems with the
> > > KyroII drivers, but I don't have one so don't really know.

> --
> Jason Monds
> http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
> http://www.racersdomain.com  - Race hosting.
> (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Robi

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Robi » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:51:20


Thanks for the updates on getting that KyroII to run different sims... I
have a V5 in my main system (1.2ghz. T'bird) but I was thinking of replacing
the old CL Banshee in my other system (K6-III 400) and I am really torn
whether or not to go KyroII or GeForce2 MX. I know you are using the KyroII
in a much stouter system but I can find very little info on the different
hardware sites pertaining to racing sims... it's mostly FPSer's that they
use to bench and compare the card. If you know of any links to reviews of
the KyroII pertaining to simming then I would appreciate the links as well.
Robin

Jason Mond

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Jason Mond » Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:21:33

Well oh knowledgeable one, did you do any tweeking to get excellent
frame rates in GPL/N4?  I know the V5 didn't require anything special to
get 800x600 2xFSAA maxed out in GPL at 36fps *and* maxed out in N4 with
42 cars 30+ fps.

Jason.


--
Jason Monds
http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
http://www.racersdomain.com  - Race hosting.
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Jason Mond

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Jason Mond » Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:25:46

We would all like someone to review sims with video cards, but I don't
know who does it.

My decision to try the KyroII was based on better scores than the ATI
Radeon and GF-MX; it was 1/3 the price of a GF3; and it supposedly had
usuable FSAA.

Right now my recommendation would be to stick with the V5 for simming
until, maybe, Robin can shed some light on how to make this card
perform.

Jason.


> Thanks for the updates on getting that KyroII to run different sims... I
> have a V5 in my main system (1.2ghz. T'bird) but I was thinking of replacing
> the old CL Banshee in my other system (K6-III 400) and I am really torn
> whether or not to go KyroII or GeForce2 MX. I know you are using the KyroII
> in a much stouter system but I can find very little info on the different
> hardware sites pertaining to racing sims... it's mostly FPSer's that they
> use to bench and compare the card. If you know of any links to reviews of
> the KyroII pertaining to simming then I would appreciate the links as well.
> Robin

--
Jason Monds
http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
http://www.racersdomain.com  - Race hosting.
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)
Jason Mond

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Jason Mond » Sat, 04 Aug 2001 11:20:50

Robin,

I'm officially recommending you upgrade your V5 (maybe to a KyroII ;)

I talked to a friend who has an ATI Radeon, he said to turn off reflections
-- I was amazed that it took up that many fps!  By turning off reflections
and the steering wheel I could easily run N4 in:

800x600x32  2XFSAA  at 30-45fps.
1024x768x32 2xFSAA  at 22-30fps
1184x864x32 NO FSAA at 30-35fps
1280x960x32 NO FSAA at 25-35fps

Everything was maxed 42 AI, 42 drawn, blah blah, except for reflections and
steer wheel where turned off.  I just turn the mirror viewing distance down
to 25% but that's pretty maxed.  The world setting really didn't affect fps
much more than 1-2 fps.

With a bit of tweeking, I'm sure 1024x768 with 2xFSAA could be moved up to
30+fps which I consider drivable.

I guess I need to learn how to tweek with this card, but it looks very
promising!

Jason.
AMD 1.3Gz, 256MB DDR, Hercules Prophet 4500 64MB




> > I'm happy to say with some tweeking (Setting to 4x AGP instead of 2x and
> > adding a AGP aperature of 16mb) I easily doubled my FPS in MBTR in
> > 800x600x32 from 20-100 to 40-170fps (relative low detail settings
> > however).  GPL runs at 1024x768 at 32-34 fps at the start of Kyalami but
> > maxes at 36 very shortly.  Certainly drivable on the starts.  Drawing
> > mirrors every 2 frames should help keep it maxed.  I even ran N4 at
> > 800x600x32 2xHorizontalFSAA during my series race and it was from 29 to 40
> > fps in the***pit -- drivable as well.

> > Now I just need more tweaking tools :)

> > Jason.

> Thanks for the updates on getting that KyroII to run different sims... I
> have a V5 in my main system (1.2ghz. T'bird) but I was thinking of replacing
> the old CL Banshee in my other system (K6-III 400) and I am really torn
> whether or not to go KyroII or GeForce2 MX. I know you are using the KyroII
> in a much stouter system but I can find very little info on the different
> hardware sites pertaining to racing sims... it's mostly FPSer's that they
> use to bench and compare the card. If you know of any links to reviews of
> the KyroII pertaining to simming then I would appreciate the links as well.
> Robin

--
Jason Monds                             theCLAPPER in Kali
http://www.racesimcentral.net/ - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/  - Race hosting.
(Remove 'no spork' when replying)
Robi

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Robi » Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:29:24


Well Jason... don't want to ruffle any feathers but my V5 isn't going
anywhere anytime soon. I have it in a system with a 1.2ghz. T'bird on a
KT7A-RAID mobo and I currently get a rock solid 36fps with 19 opponents all
the eyecandy turned on except drivers arms (which I find annoying) at
1280X960X16 (I don't mind 16 over 32 for framerate) with 2Xfsaa using the
latest D3D patch for GPL. I don't think the KyroII can do better than that
and I love the look of the 2Xfsaa with no discernable framerate hit. It's
impossible to top that actually... in my very humble opinion, of course.
In N4 I run at default graphics details 1024X768 with 2Xfsaa and I get
framerates between 40 and 50 fps but never dipping below 40fps. To be honest
that must be 16 bit colour depth but as I stated earlier I really don't feel
that going to 32 bit is worth the effort.
I was strickly thinking of replacing my old CL Banshee in my K6-III 400
system.
Regards,
Robin
Mike Ki

Kyro II vs Geforce2 MX ??

by Mike Ki » Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:09:48



> That's why a MX card might be better suited to a lower range processor
> than the Kyro. In games that support T&L, the improvement is drastic
> with an MX as it offloads the processor, making the games that are to a
> certain extent processor time bound on such a system run much faster.
> Nascar 4 is definitely one of them. In contrast, a higher range
> processor will happily do the T&L calc without hiccups, and that's
> where the Kyro II will shine as it's effective fillrate is higher than
> that of the MX because of the smart algorithms.

> -Gregor


>> The Kyro II card is a much superior card to an MX-type GeForce.  It's
>> closer to a GTS then a MX in terms of power.  Any current video cards
>> will be much better with a higher processor then just a 450mhz (I know
>> my P3-500 really needs to be changed to a P3-1000 to get full power
>> off my Kyro II).

I currently have an 800mhz PIII, would you say this qualifies as a lower
range processor? I am currently struggling with the Kyro vs MX myself.
Thanks,
Mike

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