rec.autos.simulators

A. Renault

I appreciate you thinking that at least one of my posts was funny,
but I assure you I didn't write the above statements.

Cheers!

Marc J. Nelson

I know Marc, I was replying to Kel.  I should have taken your name out
to avoid any confusion...  Sorry!

A. Renault

I'm confused...  Does that include me?

Could happen to anyone...

That's a good question.  Did you ever visit Quebec?  I don't mean by
that visiting relatives in an anglophone part of Quebec, but have you
ever really lived amongst quebeckers for a few days?  You'd realize
they are indeed different from people in other parts of Canada.  And
I'm not speaking about language issues here.  It's really hard to
point out every aspect of what distinguishes us from the rest of
Canada, but I'll resume the "feel" I get when we're discussing such
issues here:  Anglophone canadians are living (more or less)"the
american way", and we are living a little more like europeans.  That
may not be what you feel, but it's the opinion of many of us.

That's one of the reasons we feel threatened while we're inside this
beautiful country of yours.  You're always acting like you're diong us
a big favor when you're doing something to help preserve the french
culture in america.  You should take pride in it, not bashing at us as
the sole reason you're doing it.  Being a multicultural country is a
huge advantage you have and yet you don't seem to realize.

This can't go unanswered.  Do you realize that probably more than 75%
of the people here speak english?  Maybe not as good as you do but we
see so much english TV, hear so much english music, not to mention the
internet wich is 99.9% anglophone content, and we also have mandatory
english courses beginning in uh...  3rd grade I think and lasts until
we graduate from high school, how could we not speak or at least
understand english...  You wanna do business?  Need to speak english,
at least if you want to export...  A lot of our universities and
hospitals are anglophone, and all services here are available in
french or english...  Can you really say you're doing the same
efforts?  Well, I'll agree we don't really have the choice so we
cannot take credit for doing it, but anyways, I don't see how getting
lost in Quebec could be any harder for an anglophone than for a
francophone anywhere in canada...  I'm not sure but I think you've
misjudged this one...  BTW, do you speak french?  See my point...

Of course there will always be an emotionnal part in this debate.  We
strongly feel we're not really part of Canada, and that might have to
do with the canadian constitution being imposed on us without our
consent, but I really think there are some separatists that do have
valid points.  Are you saying we're all a bunch of uneducated fools
who have nothing else to do than criticize erverything we can?  I
presume you're not really assuming that.  The bigger problem is
misinformation that is carried in a large part by politicians, on both
sides.  I don't think you should agree with me, I know you'll never
do.  But at least you have to recognize that we'reno more stupid than
you are, and we all want what's best for our families and friends.

Yes but we're not asking for anything!  We just want to have enough
power to protect our language and culture.  You don't have the
slightest idea how hard it is to keep those alive when you're
surrounded by hundreds of millions of anglophones with a strong
culture, wich has assimilated many other cultures in america...

I know about spam, I'm not putting my real e-mail too...  Shame on me!
Sorry for that one, but "I just had a spur of the moment beef", sounds
familiar? Eheh... ;o)

A. Renault

We have a similar situation here in Scotland with Gaelic language,
which is spoken by an ever decreasing number of people, primarily in
the remote NW regions. This is now becoming a burden on the economy to
a certain extent, because the language doesn't actually benefit the
country at all, is supported for a small percentage of the people for
reasons of history and nationalism, but is paid for by the populous as
a whole.

Personally I do not want to pay higher taxes so that a very small
percentage of people can go to special schools and be educated in a
language that benefits neither them nor the country as a whole. In a
democracy I have to respect their right to desire such an education,
but for the same reason they also have to respect that if the majority
do not want to pay for it then they cannot demand it.

I'm not too au fait with the situation in Canada, other than that the
Quebecois are "different" from the rest of Canada in outlook, national
feeling, or whatever. Certainly as it pertains to Scotland I see
little value in it, but it's rather difficult to put common sense in
front of political correctness and challenge anyone who has siezed the
m***high ground of "protecting nationanl heritage". Not all heritage
is worthy of protection.

If people really want to learn another language and benefit the
country into the bargain, they'd be far better off learning German,
French or Japanese - even if they never left the country (as is the
case with Gaelic), the tourists would be a lot happier :)

Cheers!
John

Have you even researched how much it costs the rest of Canada to simply
put "french" on every label on everything we buy, and french on all
signs? Yet in Que. I see mostly french only signs and lables and no
english. I respect your culture and language, but to demand the rest of
us should (by law) have french and english on almost everything we buy
or look at is hipocritical, when Que. doesn't follow suit. This costs us
taxpayers a whole bunch.

Our situation is different, as French is a language spoken by a large
part of the earth's population...  Many european, south-american and
african countries have french as one of their official languages.  I
don't remember our rank exactly but I remember that french sits
amongst the most spoken languages like english, chinese, spanish,
japanese, german and maybe I'm forgetting some...  Anyway the more of
these you can understand and/or speak then the more economical power
you have (assuming you have a quality product to offer).

We're not asking anyone to pay for us, we're just asking them to give
us the power to protect our language and culture.  That can be done
many ways, but it has to be discussed.  How can we discuss on the
basis of facts that aren't aknowledged by one of the parties?

You're gonna have to work hard if you want quebeckers to agree with
that...  Here culture is everything, and maybe you think it's not
worth it but we don't, and that's what matters...

French...  You said it...  We do speak english and french here, tha
could be considered a good think in your book?

I'm not sure I understand 100% of what you're saying, heck I don't
even know if you're on my side...  I think I need to rest... ;o)

A. Renault

You know what would REALLY make some people happy? If you took this
highly interesting but completely off-topic exchange of social
commentary into private email or an appropriate newsgroup (being of
Scots ancestry myself, I know of several such NGs on the net).

Bart Brown

Doesn't matter IMO. If I want my child to speak Spanish then I myself
have to pay for special lessons - I can't expect the rest of the
population of the UK to help out. Why should they, the vast majority
do not benefit. So too with French in Canada - if a minority are
keeping alive a language that gives little or no benefit to the
nation, and in fact increases costs and hinders relations and trade
between French and English speaking areas, it's difficult to make a
case for the majority to pay for that.

And assuming that you have or have a target to have a sizable trade
with countries speaking that language. I'd guess the majority of
Canada's trade is with Japan and USA, so perhaps Japanese would be a
better option?

How does that protection come about? Through increased teaching,
increased use of French language media or whatever. Whichever way is
applied it costs money, and that money comes from the government
through taxation so everyone pays for it - including the English
speaking majority who don't want it. Unless you introduce a special
"French tax" to finance this (which in itself would cause howls of
protest in any democratic society) then it has to be seen as unfair.

Now you're not being democratic. What matters is not what the
Quebecois want, but what the majority of Canadians wants. It's their
money that will pay for it.

No. It's good in Europe because the French and Germans are our
neighbours and we have a lot of trade with them. Here all children are
taught English as a first language, and French and/or German as a
second language. Teaching French or German as a primary language would
be wrong, and that is, as far as I understand, how it is done in
Quebec. It's a bit like Scotland deciding to teach Chinese in our
schools. We would be able to talk to each other fine, but it would
cause problems for our neighbours and really be of little use to us in
everyday life.

I'm not on any side. I can see both sides equally through the similar
situation we have in Scotland, and the only "side" I am against is
anyone that cannot take into account the views of the person they are
arguing with.

Cheers!
John

Sorry for those who think this is off-topic.  Of course it is, but
hey!  We are entitled to some extras since our boy is formula one's
world champion! (wether you like it or not!)

A. Renault

John.....

Merry Christmas over there!!!!; ) Don't get hung over.. hehe.. ; )

take care

Julian Data

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