rec.autos.simulators

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

jason moy

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by jason moy » Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:27:36


>    First thing I would do at a new track in N4 was load intermediate and
> THEN lower the track bar two clicks on both sides...otherwise I would be
>*** the tail out often.  So far at least I haven't had to do that in
> 2002

That's because you've gotten better. =)

Jason

Tim

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by Tim » Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:40:52

You can also save the 'fixed' setup you were running as a client, which is
why I never loaded my setups as boss in a fixed setup race.

:)

--
Tim White
INTRAC Motorsports
www.birds-i-view.com/intrac


>    Exactly, I thought of that too, my original point,  but then I bet the
> differences between that "super" setup, and the default Sierra one that
> others had been practicing on would be very apparent.

>   As soon as those who had practiced on the default setup drove the hacked
> on a lap or two, they'd all be wondering what was up.

> -John



> > You could gain an advantage if you used your normal setup, the other
> drivers
> > would have never driven that before the race

> > --

> > ---------------
> > Steve Levett



> > > True, a boss can hack a default installed setup (it ain't real hard,
> copy
> > > one to your personal setup folder, change it, copy it back to the
track
> > > setup folder and over write the cd version), but as you observed,
> everyone
> > > has the exact same setup so doing this would be useless to gain any
> > > advantage.



> > > >   Yes, I understand this; the client gets whatever the boss-host
> > has/uses.
> > > > I know it doesn't matter what the client has, and it'll be
"overwrote"
> > by
> > > > the boss-host.

> > > >   What I was saying, is that it's possible for the boss to hack a
> setup.
> > > > Wouldn't matter of course, as everyone gets it anyway.

> > > > -John



> > > > > No, the actual setup data (not the setup name) is pushed from boss
> to
> > > > > client. Kinda like we would like to see car paint schemes done, ya
> > > follow?

> > > > > The client machine could be devoid of setups and fixed still work
as
> > it
> > > > > literally pushes the data to his garage regardless of file names
on
> > his
> > > > > machine. Thats how it appears to us and we hacked on it for over a
> > week
> > > > last
> > > > > fall. (We had a guy just smokin the field on fixed races, turns
out
> he
> > > was
> > > > > just GOOD! LOL) I really dont think there is a way to hack the
data
> > the
> > > > boss
> > > > > pushess to the client. If possible, I'd say it wasn't worth th
> trouble
> > > it
> > > > > would have to be.

> > > > > I know this sounds to good to be true, but I am convinced that is
> how
> > it
> > > > > works. We made some whacked out setups and used  them as fixed
> <fast>
> > > and
> > > > > compared them to what was on the client end and they were getting
> the
> > > > exact
> > > > > setup we were pushing and he (our guinea pig) had tweaked his
> default
> > > > fast,
> > > > > the bosses <fast> over wrote his...(for the race, did not change
the
> > > file
> > > > on
> > > > > his HD, only while connected to the server)



> > > > > >   Ok, thanks.  However, how would that still prevent hackint a
> > default
> > > > > > setup?  Couldn't you just make one of your own, name it, etc.,
the
> > > same
> > > > as
> > > > > a
> > > > > > default setup, copy it to whereever, and be set ?

> > > > > > -John





> > > > > > > >   Fixed setup is whatever is on the server, that the server
> > admin.
> > > > > > > chooses.
> > > > > > > > I.e., it could be the Papy default fast, or the server owner
> > could
> > > > > have
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > custom made one he could load on their server, choose for a
> > race,
> > > > and
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > >   Iow, it could be anything; default or not.

> > > > > > > >   N4 and N2002 default setups aren't alike at all.

> > > > > > > > -John

> > > > > > > Actually, the fixed setup is 'pushed' to each client from the
> boss
> > > or
> > > > > > > admin's computer, not the actual server. I think that the
setup
> > pool
> > > > to
> > > > > > > choose from is on the boss's local machine, tracks/setups
> > > directories
> > > > > > > instead of his personal setups located at player/setups/tracks
> > > > > directories
> > > > > > > IOW they come from the same place that the default setups are
> > stored
> > > > and
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > the reason you can't change and save them, you have to save as
> > > another
> > > > > > > filename...Our league was worried about hacking the <fast>
setup
> > > last
> > > > > > season
> > > > > > > and did extensive research on how this worked and we
discovered
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > > > > starting boss (in N4) or boss/admin (in 2002) selects a setup
> from
> > > his
> > > > > > > machine and it is pushed to each connecting client. The server
> > > machine
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > literally be devoid of setups entirely and everything would
> still
> > > > work.

Eldre

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by Eldre » Fri, 05 Apr 2002 10:04:20



>Really though, I'm guessing your skills have
>improved since you played N4 or there's another factor because I can't
>imagine self-spinning in the N4 fast setups without doing it
>intentionally.

Hmm...I'll have to try California.  That track gave me FITS in N4 - I think I
only completed about 10 laps that were clean.  And those were at granny speed,
because the setup was so unstable.  Same thing happened in N2k2 with the easy
setup, but I haven't tried the fast setup since someone else suggested it.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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jason moy

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by jason moy » Fri, 05 Apr 2002 22:51:44


> Hmm...I'll have to try California.  That track gave me FITS in N4 - I think I
> only completed about 10 laps that were clean.  And those were at granny speed,
> because the setup was so unstable.  Same thing happened in N2k2 with the easy
> setup, but I haven't tried the fast setup since someone else suggested it.

Were you using the brakes?  California was one of the tracks in N4
where using brakes just made you slower and increased the odds of
self-spinning, especially going into 1, where you need to be careful
getting slowed down since you need to slow and turn at the same time.
The default qual setup there was kind of slippery IIRC, but like most
default Papy setups after 3-5 laps the race setup wouldn't turn
anymore without melting the RF, and within 10 laps it just wouldn't
turn period.

Actually speaking of braking, if you're having trouble with Bristol,
the C***te clones (Atlanta/Texas), and Michigan/California, try
running them without brakes.  I can turn faster laps at all these
tracks with more consistency by not using the brakes, and really the
only time I'd use them is to slow the car a little faster to save the
RF tire or to deal with traffic.  A lot of other tracks are
easier/faster without braking as often or as much as the driving
lessons recommend (Las Vegas and Rockingham don't require braking in
turn 3 until the tires wear, for instance).  This may change after you
get better, but for learning I recommend using the brakes only when
absolutely necessary.

When you guys self-spin with default setups, I'm guessing it's
happening at turn entry?  If that's the case, work on how you're
slowing the car.  You need to be gentle with stock cars.  Heavy
braking, locking the brakes, pushing the car really deep into the
turn, etc. is the one technique that works in GPL and will kill you in
N4/2002.  You'll kill your tires, you'll generally be turning slower
laps anyway, and you'll unsettle the car at the time you need all the
stability you can get.

If you're doing it on turn exits, lemme know how because every papy
fast setup I've tried in N4/N2002 pushes like crazy on exit.

Jason

John Pancoas

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by John Pancoas » Fri, 05 Apr 2002 23:37:38

  Good points Jason.  Stock cars aren't supposed to be four-wheel drifted<G>
Also, if someone's loose on exit with a default setup, chances are, you got
back on the gas to soon, and to make the exit, you're having to saw the
wheel hard left........and once the tires get hold, fishtail.

-John



Eldre

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by Eldre » Tue, 09 Apr 2002 22:09:58





>> Hmm...I'll have to try California.  That track gave me FITS in N4 - I think
>I
>> only completed about 10 laps that were clean.  And those were at granny
>speed,
>> because the setup was so unstable.  Same thing happened in N2k2 with the
>easy
>> setup, but I haven't tried the fast setup since someone else suggested it.

>Were you using the brakes?  California was one of the tracks in N4
>where using brakes just made you slower and increased the odds of
>self-spinning, especially going into 1, where you need to be careful
>getting slowed down since you need to slow and turn at the same time.
>The default qual setup there was kind of slippery IIRC, but like most
>default Papy setups after 3-5 laps the race setup wouldn't turn
>anymore without melting the RF, and within 10 laps it just wouldn't
>turn period.

Yes, I was using the brakes.  That's generally how I slow down...<g>

If I wasn't going to use the brakes, I'd have to let up on the gas WAY early.
How is that faster?

Actually, a guy in one of my other GPL leagues told me that when he ran a lot
of laps in N4, he got better in GPL.  It improved his GPL braking...

It's usually the result of a lift on exit.  The car pushes towards the wall,
and I have to lift to keep from hitting it.  The lift makes the car suddenly go
to oversteer mode.  If I don't catch it quickly enough, I'll spin...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Uncle Feste

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by Uncle Feste » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:20:12


>>Actually speaking of braking, if you're having trouble with Bristol,
>>the C***te clones (Atlanta/Texas), and Michigan/California, try
>>running them without brakes.  I can turn faster laps at all these
>>tracks with more consistency by not using the brakes, and really the
>>only time I'd use them is to slow the car a little faster to save the
>>RF tire or to deal with traffic.  A lot of other tracks are
>>easier/faster without braking as often or as much as the driving
>>lessons recommend (Las Vegas and Rockingham don't require braking in
>>turn 3 until the tires wear, for instance).  This may change after you
>>get better, but for learning I recommend using the brakes only when
>>absolutely necessary.

> If I wasn't going to use the brakes, I'd have to let up on the gas WAY early.
> How is that faster?

Try it.  Braking will cause frt tire wear sooner, thereby reducing
cornering *& especially exit* speed.  Less push on exit, reducing TTO as
well when you lift to avoid the wall.  :-)

--

Fester

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has
is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough
criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime
that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

--Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

jason moy

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by jason moy » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:20:47


> Yes, I was using the brakes.  That's generally how I slow down...<g>

Stock cars are heavy and will slow down really quickly just by letting
off of the gas.

As a test, load up Bristol and instead of touching the brakes, just
let off and start your turn-in right where the red "nascar racing"
logos start at the end of the straights.  I'll bet that after a dozen
laps of that you'll be close to if not better than your fastest lap
there and will undoubtably be more consistent.

You'll be more consistent, you'll carry more speed into the turn,
you'll be able to sustain a high speed through the turn more easily
since the difference between a perfect line and pushing too hard is
more gradual, and you won't kill the tires as much.

Running the Glen or Sears Point is great GPL practice since stock cars
are so difficult to drive.  I hate the roadies in N2002 because it
always feels like you have too little horsepower, over sensitive
brakes, and a car that wants to keep going straight no matter how you
drive it.

If you're waiting until you're going to hit the wall to lift, you're
waiting too long.  Modulate the throttle to keep the car as low as
possible until you get a feel for the wall is at each track, at which
point your throttle application points will become second nature.  As
soon as you get back on the throttle, the car will tell you what's
going to happen.  If you gun it too soon the car will start to drift
almost immediately, then you let off just a tad until you're back in
line and gun it again.  If you're waiting to let off until you're off
the groove it's too late and you can say bye bye to your fenders.  The
grooves at most tracks are wide enough that you should be able to tell
you're going to fast because the car will come out of the bottom part
of the groove and come up into the higher part, which means that
you're about to leave the groove altogether if you don't take
corrective action.  If there is darkened pavement to the left of your
car, you're too high in the corner.

Jason

Eldre

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by Eldre » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:47:41


writes:

I'll send you and Jason the bill for the sheet metal damage.<g>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Can the Detroit Tigers match the Detroit Lions'  blazing 2001 start of 0-12???
Currently at 0-8...stay tuned...
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Eldre

N2002 MORE questions!!!!

by Eldre » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:47:39



>As a test, load up Bristol and instead of touching the brakes, just
>let off and start your turn-in right where the red "nascar racing"
>logos start at the end of the straights.  I'll bet that after a dozen
>laps of that you'll be close to if not better than your fastest lap
>there and will undoubtably be more consistent.

Ok, so I improved from 16.9xx to 16.597...  I ran about 30 laps
replay:http://www.umich.edu/~epickett/bristolprac4_10_02.zip

I also tried the same thing at Atlanta and Texas, and was WAY off the records
indicated.  That fastest I could get at Texas was 30.447, and the fastest at
Atlanta was 31.393  10 laps at each.
Atlanta  http://www.umich.edu/~epickett/atlprac4_10_02.zip   Texas
http://www.umich.edu/~epickett/texprac4_10_02.zip

Then I just don't recognize it as soon as you do.  I've had people watch my
laps(GPL), and say they kept waiting for me to get back in the throttle.
According to them I don't do it quick enough.  My explanation for that is that
I can't get in the throttle until I'm sure I'll make the turn, so that's what
causes the 'delayed' the throttle.  Maybe this is the same thing?  If I gun it,
I can't tell when I'm not going to make it.  On my slower laps, it's because
I'm waiting to see if I *do* make it to hit the throttle...
I dunno - tonight's practice left a lot to be desired...
Even in N2k2(as in GPL), I'm never quite sure what the car is going to do.  In
several races online and offline, I've gotten the car into 'tankslappers'.  I'm
at about 60% on saving such an event, although I crashed in BOTH weekend RAS
races(Dover and Phoenix) the same way.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Can the Detroit Tigers match the Detroit Lions'  blazing 2001 start of 0-12???
Currently at 0-8...stay tuned...
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