rec.autos.simulators

by **Andre Warrin** » Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:00:00

The writer of the article (forgot his name, sorry) had some questions
about the changes of the ring.

On this site:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

there is lots of info about the history of Monza, Monaco and the Ring,
including some maps of how the tracks were changed during their
history.

One thing I wondered about:

On the Monza fastest laps page, the fastest lap in 1991 was by Senna,
1.21.114. This was in qualifying mode. The fastest race lap in 1991
was also by Senna, 1.26.061. Can anyone explain the 5 second
difference between the fastest lap in qualifying and in race?

Andre

by **Martin Urs** » Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>On the Monza fastest laps page, the fastest lap in 1991 was by Senna,
>1.21.114. This was in qualifying mode. The fastest race lap in 1991
>was also by Senna, 1.26.061. Can anyone explain the 5 second
>difference between the fastest lap in qualifying and in race?

You'll find that a five second gap between pole and fastest
lap was not unique to Monza 1991. The reason for this is super-sticky
and short-lived qualifying tyres which have since been banned.

Martin
Nigel Mansell RIP!

by **ilmor** » Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Also if memory servs me correct there was no refueling so making it to the
end meant conserving fuel. Actually senna didnt finish that race did he? Ran
out of fuel?

-ilmore

by **david kar** » Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Just had a quick skim through my _Grand Prix Year: 1991_ and that difference
between qualifying laps and fastest race laps was fairly routine.

Qualifying tyres, no refueling (which had implications not only for weight,
but for compromised race setups).

To me, it was a much more exciting configuration than today's made-for-TV,
2- and 3-part sprints.

--DK

by **John Walla** » Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>On the Monza fastest laps page, the fastest lap in 1991 was by Senna,
>1.21.114. This was in qualifying mode. The fastest race lap in 1991
>was also by Senna, 1.26.061. Can anyone explain the 5 second
>difference between the fastest lap in qualifying and in race?

That was fairly normal in those days - reasons are...

1) Super-sticky two-lap qualifying tyres
2) No refueling so much lower weight
3) When racecar is light at end of race the race is usually won (no
reason to push) and tyres are finished - at the start the car is too
heavy to be fast despite new tyres)
4) Qualifying engines
5) Senna's banzai qualifying laps!

Cheers!
John

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:00:00

John, didn't Brabham introduce refuelling in 1989? I was under the
impression that by 1991 most, if not all, teams had adopted the practise.

BK

> >On the Monza fastest laps page, the fastest lap in 1991 was by Senna,
> >1.21.114. This was in qualifying mode. The fastest race lap in 1991
> >was also by Senna, 1.26.061. Can anyone explain the 5 second
> >difference between the fastest lap in qualifying and in race?

> That was fairly normal in those days - reasons are...

> 1) Super-sticky two-lap qualifying tyres
> 2) No refueling so much lower weight
> 3) When racecar is light at end of race the race is usually won (no
> reason to push) and tyres are finished - at the start the car is too
> heavy to be fast despite new tyres)
> 4) Qualifying engines
> 5) Senna's banzai qualifying laps!

> Cheers!
> John

by **Richard Walk** » Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:00:00

In race refuelling was banned from 1984 up to 1993.

Cheers,
Richard

by **david kar** » Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Refueling was re-intro'd in 1994. Teee-Veee!

-dk

> John, didn't Brabham introduce refuelling in 1989? I was under the
> impression that by 1991 most, if not all, teams had adopted the practise.

> BK

> > >On the Monza fastest laps page, the fastest lap in 1991 was by Senna,
> > >1.21.114. This was in qualifying mode. The fastest race lap in 1991
> > >was also by Senna, 1.26.061. Can anyone explain the 5 second
> > >difference between the fastest lap in qualifying and in race?

> > That was fairly normal in those days - reasons are...

> > 1) Super-sticky two-lap qualifying tyres
> > 2) No refueling so much lower weight
> > 3) When racecar is light at end of race the race is usually won (no
> > reason to push) and tyres are finished - at the start the car is too
> > heavy to be fast despite new tyres)
> > 4) Qualifying engines
> > 5) Senna's banzai qualifying laps!

> > Cheers!
> > John

by **Rick Baumhaue** » Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Senna finished second to Mansell at Monza in '91 - he ran out of fuel at
Silverstone and Hockenheim.

Senna made a tire stop at Monza in '91 - his fastest lap was on the second
set, on a lightening fuel load, having blistered the first set trying to
keep Mansell back.

by **Kirk Lan** » Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:00:00

That, and it is standard practice (in all series I believe) to run
qualifying with a setup that produces more speed, but cannot be used for
more than a few laps (i.e. NASCARs tape the grilles and run stiff springs,
for better speeds but it overheats the engine and kills the tires)

--
Kirk Lane

ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187

"I read dead Russian authors volumes at a time
I write everything down except what's on my mind
'Cause my greatest fear is the sucking sound
And then I know I'll never get back out"
-'Narcolepsy', Third Eye Blind

> >On the Monza fastest laps page, the fastest lap in 1991 was by Senna,
> >1.21.114. This was in qualifying mode. The fastest race lap in 1991
> >was also by Senna, 1.26.061. Can anyone explain the 5 second
> >difference between the fastest lap in qualifying and in race?

> You'll find that a five second gap between pole and fastest
> lap was not unique to Monza 1991. The reason for this is super-sticky
> and short-lived qualifying tyres which have since been banned.

> Martin
> Nigel Mansell RIP!

by **Graeme Nas** » Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Nope, 1982 :-) Refuelling was banned at the end of 1983 though.

It was illegal until reintroduced in 1994, and with the new regulations
on fuel tank sizes, it became pretty much mandatory to stop at least
once.

Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824

by **Vinc** » Tue, 17 Aug 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:34:12 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

>John, didn't Brabham introduce refuelling in 1989? I was under the
>impression that by 1991 most, if not all, teams had adopted the practise.

No, refuelling was introduced by Brabham in mid 1982, in 1983 every
team used it, and it was banned from 1984, when the fuel was limited,
until turbo engines were banned too, and in 1989 there were no limits
to the fuel capacity of the tanks
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