rec.autos.simulators

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:17:52

Actually it's more a feature of a certain type of setup, and if the base
setups in NT2003 aren't designed that way, then I wouldn't expect it to
happen, regardless of physics model. Larry, is it possible to do
asymmetric caster in NT2003? I think that is what primarily causes the
pull.

> > And this may be blasphemy to some, but I appreciate the fact that,
> > realisic or not, the damned pull-to-the-left does not seem to exist
in
> > NT2003. I still contend that this 'feature' of NR2002 is more of a
> > hindrance than benifit,

> It's not a feature they added in. It's a symptom of a realistic
physics
> engine

> Thus - if it's absent - it says much about the physics model.

> Doug

by **Jason Moy** » Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:13:17

>Actually, you are wrong, but I'm not getting myself buried into THIS
>argument.

Ah so you're saying that a car with positive camber on one side and
negative camber on the other, tires that are larger on one side than
the other, and most of the weight on on side won't try to steer to one
side? Even the original Leadfoot games model the pull to the left
with a good setup.

Jason

by **Uwe Schuerkam** » Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:12:03

> Thanks :)

> -Larry

While Larry's reviews tend to be good and unbiased, his quoting
is severely handicapped (as opposed to Todd Sorensen ;-). You
just quoted 240 lines of text for a simple "thank you". Great use of
electrons, mate! ;-)

Cheers,

Uwe

--
mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

by **ymenar** » Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:28:39

> Well, it's less noticable in NR2002 than it was in N4 so are you
> saying the physics engine in N4 is better than NR2002?

It's less noticeable because they went too far in N4. It's accurate in
NR2002. Anybody who says that it's not realistic should ask Dale Jr. who've
said often on and off-camera (while racing NR2002 in multiplayer) that is
truly is.

Just the fact that the physics in NT2003 don't model such thing are the best
example that it's not made for us at all. It totally unrealistically
changes how you 1) drive the car and 2) setup your car.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **John Pancoas** » Fri, 25 Oct 2002 23:15:17

> > Well, it's less noticable in NR2002 than it was in N4 so are you
> > saying the physics engine in N4 is better than NR2002?

> It's less noticeable because they went too far in N4. It's accurate in
> NR2002. Anybody who says that it's not realistic should ask Dale Jr.
who've
> said often on and off-camera (while racing NR2002 in multiplayer) that is
> truly is.

> Just the fact that the physics in NT2003 don't model such thing are the
best
> example that it's not made for us at all. It totally unrealistically
> changes how you 1) drive the car and 2) setup your car.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Francois, you know better than to listen to driver product endor***ts
<g> They'd say anything's the best if paid enough.

John

- Show quoted text -

by **Bill Bollinge** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 01:10:50

I wonder what Sim modeled the "Pull to the left" first? When that sim was
first released people said it wasn't realistic. Why? Because Papy hadn't
had it in its sims, therefore it must not be realistic. Now, if someone
puts in a different style of "pull to the left", people say that isn't
realistic because Papy has a different pull to the left. Reality is NOT
defined as to what is or is not in a Papy game. Quit falling prey to the
marketing and spin of Developers, Publishers and PR people. Geez...

> On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 04:28:39 -0400, "ymenard"

> >It's less noticeable because they went too far in N4.

> That's not what you said when N4 was released. You said it was
> realistic - the hard pull to the left. Now you are saying it was
> overdone.The other fellow said the pull to the left is stronger in
> N4/2002 because the physics engine is better/more realistic. Just
> pointing out a bit of hypocrisy. Heat has a the pull to the left too
> but it is modelled less noticeable like in N2002, I guess at the time
> the driving model in Heat was actually more realistic than N4 even
> though some said otherwise. I think they were wrong.

by **Carl Ribbegaard** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 01:56:49

What multiplayer? ;-)

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 04:46:33

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 04:28:39 -0400, "ymenard"

>It's less noticeable because they went too far in N4.

I was under the impression that it was less noticeable in N2002
because they revamped the camber model.

Jason

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 04:47:35

Me too.

Jason

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:12:03 +0200, Uwe Schuerkamp

>> Thanks :)

>> -Larry

>While Larry's reviews tend to be good and unbiased, his quoting
>is severely handicapped (as opposed to Todd Sorensen ;-). You
>just quoted 240 lines of text for a simple "thank you". Great use of
>electrons, mate! ;-)

>Cheers,

>Uwe

>--
>mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
>Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
>Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
>GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

by **ymenar** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:08:53

> Francois, you know better than to listen to driver product endor***ts
> <g> They'd say anything's the best if paid enough.

Hmm John, Dale Jr. *races* online. He's there, racing against us. When he
talks there, he doesn't spout his typical PR that is require in NASCAR.

Anyway, Papyrus doesn't pay anybody to endorse their products. EA does.
Yet, everybody knows that in Winston Cup and BGN, they all race NR2002 to
stay in mental racing shape and for the fun of racing. Not EA sim-arcade
crap-o-tastic.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:11:04

> That's not what you said when N4 was released. You said it was
> realistic - the hard pull to the left.

It was realistic, but done too far.

No, the pull is there because of realism. Do you read the words that are
coming out of my posts ??????????????????????????????????????????????????

like in N2002, I guess at the time

?

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:12:04

> On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 04:28:39 -0400, "ymenard"

> >It's less noticeable because they went too far in N4.

> I was under the impression that it was less noticeable in N2002
> because they revamped the camber model.

That's exactly what I wrote, no? ;)

They went too far, as in they wanted realism but just went too far and
passed the realism mark.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Larr** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:58:03

I'm saying that the pull to the left SHOULD be there if true realism is what
is wanted.

I thought you were saying the opposite, and that if the car pulls, it is
unrealistic.

-Larry

> >Actually, you are wrong, but I'm not getting myself buried into THIS
> >argument.

> Ah so you're saying that a car with positive camber on one side and
> negative camber on the other, tires that are larger on one side than
> the other, and most of the weight on on side won't try to steer to one
> side? Even the original Leadfoot games model the pull to the left
> with a good setup.

> Jason

by **Larr** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:59:46

Yes.

I was running 2.5 on the left, and 3.5 on the right if I remember correctly.

-Larry

<snip> just for Uwe... :)

by **Larr** » Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:01:05

Nascar Heat started it all.

-Larry

rec.autos.simulators

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations

NT2003: Initial Observations