> > The real action in either case is a league. (which i sadly haven't had
> time
> > to join- yet). Once you've joined one, it shouldn't matter whether it's
> > through a matching server (VROC) or a service like TEN.
> Not true. Read above, the warping is always worse on non-dedicated servers,
> without prediction code. Per example, the bigges NROS league, OSCAR, who
> has over 1000members, will NOT continue to race on the N3 system if they do
> not implement dedicated servers, because they understand how bad the racing
> will be and the backward step we will take.
There is no way we can convince someone who doesn't understand anything
out side of TEN. With GPL 1.0 I had *Full Fields* of cars with *NO*
warp. The TEN drivers don't realize that their systems are setup to run
on TEN and not set up to run on the GPL systems. If they would set
their systems up for GPL then the quality of racing would be better then
what TEN gave them.
> > thanks for the *free* internet play, Papy- a nice step *forward*. I, for
> > one, won't miss TEN a bit.
> Anybody who raced on Hawaii or the NROS understands it's a big step backward
> if they do not implement dedicated servers/rankings/centralized chat. Those
> things appeared on both Hawaii and the NROS, so it HAS to be a step backward
> for N3. We are loosing 3major and important things in a community, and the
> things we will gain are the ability to have more than 24drivers. It's the
> only addition to what we have on the NROS and had on Hawaii. Hawaii had
> 32+drivers, remember.
This again is a closed minded statement. I ran on Hawaii and
absolutely love the GPL type of connection. We do have a centralized
Chat with dedicated servers. As far as the Rankings system, you know
with out a doubt that TEN's system is very easy to manipulate. Without
the rankings system, you'll have to figure out who are the top drivers
another way. Maybe a single way that looks more at the drivers ability
rather then a way to keep the customer online longer. As far as keeping
track... The GPLRC is starting a system sort of like a rankings system
already. It's in it's primitive form but starting to look good.
> But for the simple gamer, it will be a step forward. For him, the
> satisfaction of racing against people will be enough, but for US, we would
> gladly pay for those 3 vital needs. We will still have to make them
> understand that it's not perfect, and two previous service had better
> multiplayer racing.
For the "Gamer", Yes, all they need is a place with Pick up races. For
the serious driver, even on TEN, the serious drivers did little else out
side organized scheduled races. (Leagues, invitationals). We in the
GPML "league" have had a couple "Gamers". One lasted just one race
while the other is starting to understand how serious a league is. This
gamer/rookie serious driver, is becoming a very good serious driver.
This brings us to a new style of rankings system, one that works toward
the drivers ability rather then the customer. As far as gladly paying
for such a system, It's working quite well with out paying for it.
> Try a thing. Load GPL at an oval track. Now try the NROS at an oval track.
> The difference is incredible, both because of the excellent prediction code
> and also the dedicated servers. I mean they run on SUN Microsystems, not
> Pentium 2 PC with a Cable-modem like on GPL. But that's what N3 might be.
> (might is the word, but it's the one with the most chances).
While the Ovals were starting to gain popularity, they were being run
on these systems that you describe (Pentium bases, ect..). The races I
were in had 0 "Zero" warp. The only problems we had were from the
converted tracks them selves.. being able to run through solid walls,
and the such. With luck, the converted N3 tracks (hope there are going
to be converted) will eliminate that. The prediction code isn't our
problem, we don't have any problems with prediction. It's GPL's
collision programming that we have a problem with. If N3 is using the
same collision setup, then you'll have the same problem even if it's on
a dedicated SUN. If N3 doesn't use this collision programming, then N3
will be better then GPL in that respect. But running on the dedicated
SUN won't make a difference.
> Many NROS people will simply not race on their system, but create their own
> hubs and LAN independantly. This will SEPERATE the community into many
> places, this is NOT the way to go. We need a centralized place where we can
> join races in dedicated servers. We will PAY for this. Me, and at least
> 10,000 people. Because that's the number we have on the NROS without any
> publicity. Now imagine with publicity how big the number could grow. 20$
> per month, that's 2.4million dollars for the system. TEN already has the
> whole architecture for it. Why not continue. What will happen with our
> rankings we have worked FOUR years to create ? If you only knew how
> important rankings are for many of us. If not, let's say anybody can change
> their screename all the time.
Again, we have a centralized place. GPL-GSB. I'm sure that Larry has
been considering writing something for N3. We haven't heard from him in
quite some time so I can "assume" that he's working on a N3 GSB as we
speak. Even if he isn't, Someone will write something. I'm all for
having Papy set up their own service. I *Think* I saw something
mentioned that Papy will have their own system up anyhow. (I may be
wrong on that). As far as rankings, They are not worth as much as you
say. Reason being is that they are way too easy to manipulate. Besides
that, even if you did start the rankings system over, the better
drivers will still make it to the top very quickly and the "gamers" will
still stay at the bottom. That discussion was talked about close to a
year ago on TEN's NG.
> You will agree with me that open multiplayer will bring 1000times more kids
> who couldn't pay for TEN, AOLers who have incredibly bad connections, lamers
> who weren't interested in paying for the NROS, Backward drivers because I
> can bet you 5$ that backward + reverse driving will be enabled like GPL (on
> the NROS you can), Keyboard drivers, and people who would want to cheat. If
> you don't have a centralized chat with screenames and rankings, how the heck
> will you know who you are racing against ? Somebody could just switch
> screename the next race, nobody will know about him. He could impersonnate
> quality NROS drivers, and create havoc. There is soo many issues here, the
> SRA would be there to represent everybody. That's including the newbies and
> making them understand the world of online multiplayer racing. It is the
> future.
As far as the counter race drivers and the crashers and such, That is
a GPL fault. With GPL you have to type "!eject <name>" and that driver
is gone for the race. In GPL, to my knowledge, there is nothing that
says a driver can just change his name and re enter a race and do the
same thing. In N3, we don't know if that same system is going to be used
or if a system that checks other things (out side of the drivers name)
first before the driver connects. That type of system that eliminates
specific drivers no matter what their log on name is could be
implemented directly into N3 instead of into a SUN server. Till N3
comes out, and/or unless you have special insight on how Papy is
designing the N3 multi player system, there is no reason to speculate.
I do like the idea of a centralized racing club such as the SRA. I
only hope that the SRA doesn't have "exclusive" rights to using N3. As
it stands with GPL, GPL-GSB is the place to be. If someone were to
write an application that was better then GPL-GSB, then people would
migrate there. This would bring better and better applications,
centralized, places to be at. Again, the only place to be for N2 is on
TEN. There are other places to be but they don't compare only because
TEN has exclusive rights to the NROS, and very tight controls on what
anyone else can say about using N2. If the SRA had exclusive rights to
say they run using N3 specifically then the quality of service would be
as bad as TEN. If there is no Exclusive rights to the SRA to use N3,
then there will be competition among online racing environments that
will eventually bring to the on line racing world specifically what you
and I are after.... A real and true future to Online racing.
So, The best thing to do is to wait till N3 is released first. second,
forget about your rankings because they are only good for TEN and not
for you. Third, Press the issue of allowing any organization to say
that they race specifically N3. And finally, hope that other
organizations will grow so that we will have a future out side of a
single entity such as TEN.
I'd like to add that I think it would be better to think of Online
racing as entity separated from NASCAR Winstin cup racing. Much like
the Bush racing is a separate entity. I think that a Online Racing
organization should not include a rankings system because that only puts
Online racing right beside Quake playing. There should only be a
ranking system among racing series/leagues. The series can keep track
of points and such per season and keep track of accumulated statistics
from with in the series. But place a points system that never stops
collecting points and you're looking at a gaming service rather then a
sport with a future.
my ideal centralized ranking system will keep track of statistics for a
year and then zero out those numbers. Then it would be up to the
individual to keep track of his/her accumulated statistics for
accumulating years. Much like NASCAR or FIA or SCCA or ect... It is
truly easy to do as I have records of my first league race on Hawaii all
the way to last nights GPML race on GSB.
Mike
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Mike
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