rec.autos.simulators

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

Wilf Le

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Wilf Le » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:05:10 -0600, "Trevor Thomas"


>Another thing that bugs me is the "wheel goes slack" when the front wheels
>start to slide, anyone who has driven a real car in the snow or on gravel
>knows that this just doesnt happen. The only way you know when you are
>pushing is visible, you sure dont have your wheel suddenly become
>disconnected<g>.

If you don't feel slack in real car when your front wheels starts to
slide, it's probably because you have power steering and front wheel
drive.

Try a manual steering RWD car and you'll get slack when slip angle
gets beyond several degrees.  This is especially true when braking.

regards,
WL

Trevor Thoma

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Trevor Thoma » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00


>I'm not positive, but I think Trev has some experience with real Late
>Models, and if so, then he already knows what "directly connected" and
>"disconnected" feels like in a high-performance, non-street-going
>automobile.  <G>

>-- JB

JB, this is what I base my opinion of FF on, its a far cry from reality and
if anything a detriment to precision control IMO :).

Trev

Trevor Thoma

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Trevor Thoma » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00


>On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:05:10 -0600, "Trevor Thomas"

>If you don't feel slack in real car when your front wheels starts to
>slide, it's probably because you have power steering and front wheel
>drive.

>Try a manual steering RWD car and you'll get slack when slip angle
>gets beyond several degrees.  This is especially true when braking.

>regards,
>WL

I'm using my personal experience of driving a real stock car on dirt as my
frame of reference. In any case it really doesnt matter as its just an
opinion, I'm not trying to convince anyone to give up thier FF equipment
just because I dont happen to like it :).

Trev

Pat Dotso

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Pat Dotso » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00



> >I'm not positive, but I think Trev has some experience with real Late
> >Models, and if so, then he already knows what "directly connected" and
> >"disconnected" feels like in a high-performance, non-street-going
> >automobile.  <G>

> JB, this is what I base my opinion of FF on, its a far cry from reality and
> if anything a detriment to precision control IMO :).

Why don't the two of you come and race me and
Alison.  Then we'll see whose controls are
detrimental :).

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Ronnie Bigwhi

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Ronnie Bigwhi » Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:00:00

 I have the Logitech Formula Force....Id like to get in on that race with my
detrimental controller too!!!! ;)




> > >I'm not positive, but I think Trev has some experience with real Late
> > >Models, and if so, then he already knows what "directly connected" and
> > >"disconnected" feels like in a high-performance, non-street-going
> > >automobile.  <G>

> > JB, this is what I base my opinion of FF on, its a far cry from reality
and
> > if anything a detriment to precision control IMO :).

> Why don't the two of you come and race me and
> Alison.  Then we'll see whose controls are
> detrimental :).

> --
> Pat Dotson
> IMPACT Motorsports
> http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Brett Camma

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Brett Camma » Sun, 06 Feb 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 4 Feb 2000 17:17:47 -0600, "Trevor Thomas"


>I'm using my personal experience of driving a real stock car on dirt as my
>frame of reference. In any case it really doesnt matter as its just an
>opinion, I'm not trying to convince anyone to give up thier FF equipment
>just because I dont happen to like it :).

Based on a lot of personal experience with competition karting and
SCCA sports car racing, I've got to say that I didn't consider the
sensations I received through a Logitech wheel any sort of close
approximation to actually driving a race car (closer to the gokart,
actually), but I can observe that it does add to the game as without
FF you are physically quite isolated from the experience of driving
the car and must rely exclusively on visual perception and some
limited sounds.

With FF, you get some more input with which you can effect better
control of the car (at least I'm grateful for the additional tactile
input).  Until they come up with $200.00 sim***pits with 3-axis
motion, the FF units are a terrific bang for the buck if you're
serious about your sim racing.

Just my two cents...

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

Greg Cisk

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Greg Cisk » Sun, 06 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Uh huh...

Um... I think you start sliding and lose control of the fronts... That
seems normal to me.

None of which surprise me at all. Duh. I suspect the ECCI fellas
have the same "personal feelings on the subject".

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Joel Willstei

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Joel Willstei » Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:00:00

John,

    I felt the same way as you did. I even ordered a TSW2. Then the patch
came out for gpl with FF. I purchased a MSFF just to check it out,since it
had a 30 days to return it. Well, the FF in gpl is like no other sim. You
can feel the car getting light, loading up, and what a 4 wheel drift really
feels like. These factors not only make the sim more realistic, but it helps
you to drive with more control.  The bottom line was that I still have the
MSFF wheel and canceled my TSW2. I haven't had second thoughts yet. I even
hooked up my old T2, and couldn't even drive my Ferrari with any kind of
control.

   And yes, I understand quite well that the TSW wheels are most likely a
life time investment while the MSFF wheel isn't. In fact, I only expect it
to last 2 years or so until the next generation of FF wheels hits the
market. Afterall, are you using the same motherboard,cpu,and graphics card
that you had 2 years ago? I really don't think so.

Joel Willstein

Joel Willstei

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Joel Willstei » Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:00:00


snip

Trev,

     You're sure intitled to your opinion, but I don't agree with it. GPL
without FF just isn't worth the effort or time for me. And that's my
opinion.

Joel Willstein

Joel Willstei

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Joel Willstei » Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:00:00




> > >I'm not positive, but I think Trev has some experience with real Late
> > >Models, and if so, then he already knows what "directly connected" and
> > >"disconnected" feels like in a high-performance, non-street-going
> > >automobile.  <G>

> > JB, this is what I base my opinion of FF on, its a far cry from reality
and
> > if anything a detriment to precision control IMO :).

> Why don't the two of you come and race me and
> Alison.  Then we'll see whose controls are
> detrimental :).

> --
> Pat Dotson
> IMPACT Motorsports
> http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Pat,

     I would really like to join in on this one. Afterall, you would need a
MSFF wheel user.

Joel Willstein

J

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by J » Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:00:00

OK Trevor,
how about your plans to implement (good) FF.
The recent discussion with another wheel-supplier left the impression, that they
overslept. Now they claim that FF isn't ripe for a good implementation, IMO BS.

See you

Jens



>>I'm not positive, but I think Trev has some experience with real Late
>>Models, and if so, then he already knows what "directly connected" and
>>"disconnected" feels like in a high-performance, non-street-going
>>automobile.  <G>

>>-- JB

>JB, this is what I base my opinion of FF on, its a far cry from reality and
>if anything a detriment to precision control IMO :).

>Trev

---------------------------------------------

Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Visit my webpage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ for some serious stuff concerning:
Radio controlled airplanes
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Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor

Dave Kadlc

LWFF or TSW steering wheel?

by Dave Kadlc » Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I a agree with Pierre.  I have done some gokart racing myself, and I used
to hate the long fast corners because they would beat you up.  And when the
kart was pushing the steering was much lighter.  ....think about it... when
the front wheels have grip, they "want" to point straight if you're
turning.  Once the wheels loose grip and start sliding (iow, you loose
static friction), the force of the wheels "wanting" to point straight out
is much lower.

Dave.

-------------------------------------
Team Cooper Cup online racing series
http://www.geocities.com/teamcoopercup



>> I'm not positive, but I think Trev has some experience with real Late
>> Models, and if so, then he already knows what "directly connected" and
>> "disconnected" feels like in a high-performance, non-street-going
>> automobile.  <G>

>Maybe he does, but shouldn't a tire which has lost traction be
>easier to turn? Seems to me that it would move a lot more
>freely...


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