rec.autos.simulators

OT: Wow what a race!!!

Brett C. Camma

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by Brett C. Camma » Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I suspect that a lot of people who care about open wheel racing in
America are bitter about the rift between CART and IRL.  You have them
on one side and those who think CART was ruining the sport on the
other side of the argument, hence you get bashing.

I agree about a good race being worth watching no matter the venue,
but frankly, the best (for me) are ones are the ones I'm in. <g>

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

jbo..

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by jbo.. » Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:00:00



Actually, Brett, what I see is a lot of CART fans bashing the IRL, and
a lot of IRL fans defending the IRL -- WITHOUT trying to tear down
CART, its teams, or its drivers, and WITHOUT resorting to "CART-
bashing," if you will.  Yes, there is some, but most of the bashing
comes from the CART camp, most often -- but you never see any of that
from CART's owners, drivers, and participants (with the possible
exception of Mario Andretti).

Go, Brett, go! <G>

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Before you buy.

jbo..

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by jbo.. » Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:00:00

AMEN!  Bravo!  Speech!  Encore!

;-)

-- JB



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Before you buy.

Dave Henri

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by Dave Henri » Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:00:00

  I too have noticed the bashing is generally one way...kinda like
water always flows downhill.
  But here is my reason:
  Just before the IRL was formed, all seemed good.  Now behind the
scenes things may have been chaotic or even on the verge of financial
meltdown, but up-front, all seemed good.
   Indy was indeed the World's greatest race.  The sponsors were lining
up...Nascar was still number two  but coming on awfully fast.  The fans
knew the drivers, most of the tracks, etc.  But the split either caused
or exposed the problems in the two series.  
  I yelled long and loud back on the Racing newsgroup years ago that the
IRL would be the death of BOTH series.  Little by little the sponsorship
money will fade away or get grabbed by the Nascar teams in search of
replacement money for the Ciggarette companies.   I think, I am right in
this predicition, it hasn't happened yet, but neither group has the core
fan base the old group had.
  TG(whose name I shant utter)felt he had to bring immeadiate legitimacy
to his new series, he chose his only club, albeit a very BIG club, to
bring that instant credibility.  And that is my beef with the IRL.  This
'could' have been a GREAT series, one that teams freely moved back and
forth between even with the different cars and regulations.  But by
using the old 25/33 rule, he effectively killed both parties.
  Indy 'should' have stayed Indy.  Now it should be called indy.
The smaller non-fan based sponsors put far more effort into May than the
rest of the 12 months of advertising budgeting.  Now what do they have
to show...I remember cardboard standups of the drivers in stores, I
remember month long giveaways and all sorts of commercial buildup to
Indy, and this was far away from the track in the Pacific NW.  
All that is gone now.  I enjoy oval racing, but not as much as Road
courses...so with the IRL and CART bleeding themselves to death, soon I
expect to enjoy neither.  
  So if I have spilled vile toward the IRL in the past...and heaped some
on you for defending it...I have a reason or two...I enjoy racing.  IRL
included.  But my racing of choice is gonna suffer and for that I have
the CART and IRL bigwigs to thank.  I may be overly pessimistic, but I
have seen too much upheaval in healthy series all over the world, I
cannot expect anything but the complete destruction of open wheel racing
in America due to the IRL's original posistion.  Sure they have loosened
the rules now, and CART has made schedule changes.  But even if Penske
and other come back next year...we still will have a patient on a
pacemaker...buying time, not life.
dave henrie
Speedy Fas

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by Speedy Fas » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:44:53 GMT, "Randy Wilson"




>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:52:10 GMT, "Randy Wilson"



>> >> On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:59:11 -0700, "Kirk Lane"

>> >> >Man, you seem BITTER...

>> >> >And besides, they could have been racing 3-hp gokarts around a
>> >roller-derby
>> >> >rink for all I care, that was AWESOME RACING!!!!!!

>> >> Artificial Competition:  The use of rules and/or equipment to force
>> >> passing, multi-race winners and make the talent of participants appear
>> >> equal.  It is used to make a competitive series.  The best drivers
>> >> rarely win.

>> >2 words for you, "Hanford Device"

>> Yeah.  Re-read my original message.

>"At least the CART race at Michigan 1998 had driver talent"

>2 words for you, "Hanford Device"

Better try again:
----------speedy fast wrote---------------
CART does not use this kind of ***on road courses.  And until 2000
did not use it on short ovals.  When Michael Andretti wins at Mid-Ohio
or Alex Zanardi wins at Road America, I KNOW who the best driver was
that day.  I don't care if there were zero lead changes.
-----------------------------------------------------

Make sure you read every word.

-----------
"My dispute is with the IRL. I will not support the IRL because I think that's
what has disrupted open-wheel racing in America for us.  I mean, we are pulling
in different directions and that doesn't make sense."
  -- Mario Andretti, May 2000

Juan Montoya tells the truth about the Indianapolis Motor Speedway
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Oval racing is 98% engineering and 2% driver talent.

Al Unser Jr:  The Indy Retirement League Poster-Boy
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Speedy Fas

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by Speedy Fas » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00


>>Artificial Competition:  The use of rules and/or equipment to force
>>passing, multi-race winners and make the talent of participants appear
>>equal.  It is used to make a competitive series.  The best drivers
>>rarely win.

>>This is something that the IRL is good at doing...emulating NASCAR.

>    Can YOU say "Hanford device"?

>                       bob

Better re-read my message.

---------speedy fast wrote--------------
CART does not use this kind of ***on road courses.  And until 2000
did not use it on short ovals.  When Michael Andretti wins at Mid-Ohio
or Alex Zanardi wins at Road America, I KNOW who the best driver was
that day.  I don't care if there were zero lead changes.
---------------------------------------------------

Make sure you read every word.

-----------
"My dispute is with the IRL. I will not support the IRL because I think that's
what has disrupted open-wheel racing in America for us.  I mean, we are pulling
in different directions and that doesn't make sense."
  -- Mario Andretti, May 2000

Juan Montoya tells the truth about the Indianapolis Motor Speedway
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Oval racing is 98% engineering and 2% driver talent.

Al Unser Jr:  The Indy Retirement League Poster-Boy
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Kirk Lan

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by Kirk Lan » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

True, all true.  IMO, Indy should really be a 'non-series-affiliated' race.
Sure, different series could count it as a points race - I mean, F1 drivers
could get points for it at one time - but it should really be an open race,
with a set of rules that should be much more open than they are now, to
permit drivers with all sorts of different vehicles to run at the race.
Possibly even so open as to allow all three major open-wheel factions -
CART, IRL, F1 - to have their cars on the track competing with each other.
Equalization rules to slow CART and F1 down to the IRL speeds - simply new
popoff valves for the CART guys and maybe rev limiters or weight increases
for the F1 boys.  Now wouldn't THAT be a return to greatness - Shumacher in
his Ferrari, Montoya in his Lola-Toyota, and Ray in his Dallara-Aurora all
diving for the lead going into turn 1, followed closely by Gil de Ferran
with a Reynard-Mercedes (the infamous pushrod one of course =), Mika
Hakkinen in his McLaren-Mercedes (the 19,000 RPM one =), and (dang, not a
Mercedes in IRL =) Eddie Cheever in that Dallara-Datsun...er...Infiniti =)
I'm drooling right now at the cacophony of sights and sounds =)

And PLEASE, bring it back to a full 4 weeks!!!!!

--
Kirk Lane

GPLRank: 229.48
ICQ: 28171652
AIM: Kirker64
(IM me twice so I can reply...using a beta client)

"The time has come for me to kill this game
Now open wide and say my name"
- "Space Lord", Monster Magnet

jbo..

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by jbo.. » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00



<LIBERAL SNIP>

Tony George announced a couple of weeks ago that he is considering a
return to a 4-week schedule, or possibly expanding the current format
to make it a 2-weekend qualification schedule for 2001 and beyond.
This would leave more room for qualifying should there be a rainout on
the first weekend, which, thankfully, we haven't had to contend with
for the past two years.

-- JB

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Before you buy.

Dan Belch

OT: Wow what a race!!!

by Dan Belch » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00



><LIBERAL SNIP>

>> And PLEASE, bring it back to a full 4 weeks!!!!!

>Tony George announced a couple of weeks ago that he is considering a
>return to a 4-week schedule, or possibly expanding the current format
>to make it a 2-weekend qualification schedule for 2001 and beyond.
>This would leave more room for qualifying should there be a rainout on
>the first weekend, which, thankfully, we haven't had to contend with
>for the past two years.

>-- JB

IMHO Tony is just trying to find a way to get CART to not be able to come back
and make his series look bad next year.

-----------------------------------------
Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited
http://simcrash.00game.com


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