rec.autos.simulators

What's this world coming to!!!

Nice work Speedvision!

Absolutely brilliant, isn't it - after the stellar 2001 season wrap-up, I
was e***d to watch my first season of WRC.  I had no idea the coverage
would be this good on SV (or is that SC now?) - the production guys have to
be editing like madmen to get this stuff ready for the 8pm European Time
wrapup shows.

I personally think the Citroen is the prettiest car out there, and Loeb is
flying!  Where's my air horn?

I agree.  It's awesome!  I had never watched any kind of rallying
before the Speedvision New Year's Day marathon, and now I'm hooked.
Wonderful stuff.  I'm waiting for a copy of Colin McRae 2 to show up,
and will definitely get Rally Trophy as soon as it's released in
Canada.  

One newbie question I have that perhaps someone knowledgeable in
rallying could answer.  Who makes up the pace notes that the
co-drivers use?  Do these guys go out ahead of time and drive the
stage with a pen and notepad, or does someone else do it for them?  I
seem to recall from the Speedvision marathon that in one of the events
last year, someone (forget who) was accused of  "illegal
reconnaisance" (I think that's what they called it).  What the heck
was that all about?

Personally, I like the looks of Makinnen's Subaru, but my favourite
driver is Carlos Sainz, since he looks like he could be my
father-in-law's twin brother!  An yes, young Mr. Loeb is flying.  I
wouldn't be too disappointed to see him win.

Ian

Yes, and kudos to Channel 4 for their surprisingly good coverage, now if we
get all that was promised:

closer to the rallying action. The top 30 cars will each have in-car cameras
mounted on the front windscreen, out of the back windscreen, in the
foot-well, on the front bumper, on the dashboard and behind the wheel.

There will be over 50 trackside camera positions for each rally and a
helicopter following every stage.

Using 'Black box technology', the plan is to broadcast an up-to-date rally
leaderboard including split timings alongside engine temperature, gear
selection and driver's heart-rate. Future developments include the option of
selecting from a number of different views to watch the rally during a live
broadcast and eventually using computer handsets compete against the worlds
top rally drivers."<

Then I think Formula 1 and Bernie in particular, better stop thinking of his
bloated wallet and give some better feeds out to the TV stations.

Ian

I only wish it were the old "Narrator".  Probably because I was just simply
used to his voice.

There are a few days of officially scheduled and supervised reconnaissance
prior to each WRC event.  The driver and co-driver will typically drive the
entire route at least twice in a normal road car supplied by the Team (uh,
yeah, I wish I could buy a road car like that).  The first time through the
driver will call each feature to the co-driver, who writes it down in rally
shorthand.  Usually that night the co-driver will re-write that
bouncy-bouncy hasty scrawl into something more legible, and the two will
check the notes for accuracy the next day in their survey vehicle.  Crews
are meant to keep to speed limits on the stages when doing recce, as the
roads are not closed to general public (uh, yeah, speed limits, okay...).

In fact in any WRC event most stages are used from year to year, perhaps in
a slightly different order.  Rarely do experienced crews have to pacenote an
entire rally from scratch, but they will certainly have to make some
modifications to their previous year's notes.

Friends who've competed in the Australian World Championship round in Perth
say that recce is (almost) more fun than the competition.  You'll stop at a
general store out in the country to buy some food and drink during the
pacenoting, and there are maybe Sainz and Moya, or perhaps McRae and Grist,
doing exactly the same thing; and everyone's always ready to have a chat and
compare informal notes on their favourite stretch of road in the area!

GMF

Cool, GMF.  Thanks for the info.  It's starting to make some sense to
me now.  I'm still wondering what happened last season on one of the
events when one of the teams got nailed for "illegal reconnaisance".
The TV broadcast just kinda glossed over it without going into too
many details, but apparently it seemed like there was a bit of
controversy about it at the time.  Forgive my ignorance, but I've only
been a rally fan for a grand total of about 19 days now, and I'm just
trying to learn as much about it as I can since it's rapidly becoming
one of my favourite forms of motorsport.  

On another subject, if one were to show up as a spectator at a WRC
event, do they charge for admission (and just how the heck would they
do so anyway???).  On TV, it looks like you just show up, park your
car by the side of the road and just stand there and blow your air
horn and drink beer.  With the emphasis that Bernie and the FIA put on
safety and security at F1 events, to see WRC cars passing within
literally inches of the spectators is totally unbelievable!  It's like
the old days of the Targa Florio or Mille Miglia. I usually try to
plan my European business trips so that I can take in a Grand Prix
weekend, but I'm seriously thinking about trying to work in a WRC
event this season as a change of pace.

Ian  

Actually, the WRC cars have licence plates = road car. They also have
to drive to the different special stages on public roads, not breaking
the speed limit. Even two Citroen's didn't reach first stage because
of mechanical problems on friday :)

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

I vaguely remember something about one of the teams being penalised for
"illegal reconnaissance" last year.  I thought it had something to do with
cycling through the stage before hand but just can't remember the details.

I have only ever been to one WRC event and that was the Rally of Great
Britain.  I have also been to a few other national rallies here in Scotland.
They are fun to spectate at, but can be a little bit frustrating in that the
fastest guys run first on the stage so that after the first dozen or so are
through, the rest seem a little tame.  It is also a lot different from
circuit racing (from a spectating point of view) in that it only takes about
10 mins for the fast guys to pass through the stage and even then you
normally only get a glance at them for a few seconds (whilst trying to
remove the gravel from between your teeth).  After that, you then try to
leave the stage to catch another stage (normally do one, miss one, do one).
This can be a lot of fun perusing rally cars on public roads who are all
trying to make the next time check.  However, I would imagine at a WRC event
it would be particularly busy and very difficult to get parked and walk into
the stage in time to see the front runners pass through.

The rallies I have been to do not normally charge an admission for the stage
however, parking charges can be expensive.  The parking more often than not
consists of a local farmer taking some cattle of his land and opening a
field gate (you have to pray that it doesn't rain).  I do know that the
charging format of the Rally of Great Britain was changed so that the
spectator was charged although, as you say, I have no idea how they can
police it.  I know that in the UK rally stages are closed to vehicles so I
am not quite sure why so many cars are "parked" on the stages in Europe.

Certainly well worth taking in if you get the chance but, pound for pound
(or $ for$), the best value IMHO is still a CART race :0)

P.S.
I have really enjoyed the Channel 4 coverage same footage as Eurosport
(obviously) but better packaged.

I can *only* comment on the Australian and New Zealand rounds of the WRC
(the Oz one is fairly ordinary spectating, and I'm saying that as an Aussie;
NZ is sensational, plus the Kiwis are probably the most hospitable race on
the planet).

Both Oz and NZ will sell you a single-day or multi-day spectator pass,
typically a laminated tag on a neck string.  You park on public roads, but
access to the special stages is controlled -- it *has* to be, on closed-road
WRC events.  You then walk into the stage anything from 100 metres to
several kilometres (Urk!) and find a good vantage point, typically passing
some sort of official person who will want to see your pass.  On occasion,
even access to car parking if it's on some farmer's land or a recreation
reserve, while 'free', will require you to show your pass.

The spectator pass can be purchased over the 'Net (you should always do a
bit of Internet research at the rally's home page before going anyway), or
at Rally Headquarters, or usually at selected places out in the country near
the stages themselves.  A Spectator Guide is obviously absolutely essential
or you won't find the action.

If you have pots and pots of money, you hire a helicopter for the day, there
will be charter companies that have an intimate knowledge of the rally route
and can whisk you to your own private vantage point.  Not having pots of
money, I only do this on one of the three days of Rally New Zealand, there
are usually about 30 choppers all doing the same thing (it can get very
crowded up there), they even have a dedicated radio channel and rally air
traffic control for the occasion (honest!).

Otherwise, expect lots of driving, lots of walking, lots of waiting, and
potentially only seeing the cars once or twice in a day.  Is it worthwhile?
Oh yes...  Fresh country air, exercise, and cars hurtling past at speeds you
just can't appreciate on TV.

GMF

There is some work in progress to give anyone interested in Rally
and owning a computer a new spectator experience.

Look at Virtual Spectator:
http://carbon.virtualspectator.com/wrvs/introduction.htm

They claim to be able to deliver by the Spanish Rally.

Anyone with more details?

Ivar

I've never been to a European rally, but the one I went to in the US
(The Susquehannock Trail PRO Rally in Wellsboro, PA, http://stpr.org/)
did not have any sort of admission.  There were some designated spectator
areas that they tried to confine people to, but there was no charge to
be there.  And I think plenty of people who were familiar with the area
just went and stood whereever they wanted to out in the woods.

It was cool, go.  :)

    Marc

Aww. Here I thought you were going to say that the helicopter would
follow your favorite driver as they went around the track. Now that
would have been cool.
--
  -asbjxrn

    Wow, my long-lasting dream of virtual-reality live feed might someday be
true.  Really, the concept is incredibly interesting and I've written tons
of times about this, especially when netracelive was around for the IRL
thing.  I was furious that they would allow us to drive, because it made no
sense.

    Instead, think of this guys.  Let's take the example of Winston Cup.
You load up N5 (per example) on Sunday afternoon just before the race, and
you log on to special NASCAR servers.  You could have to pay for that, I
won't go into the business aspect of selling the idea.  If you check out the
GPLProxy utility, you can see that given unlimited bandwidth, you can have
as many servers are you can.  It's not a problem.

    Now, you log into N4 and you wait for the start of the race.  When it
does, you are sent positional data for each cars on the track.  You can
watch the same race on TV, but live in virtual reality.  See the track from
any angle, any seat.  See the in-car of your favourite driver.  You could
record the race and watch it later and see who's the investigator of any
crash.  It is possible, positional data is easily available and can be sent
onto servers quite fast.  Even if the delay is minimal, it shouldn't be much
of a trouble (so what if it's 30-seconds late on the real feed?).

    With Papyrus' prediction code, the bandwidth required is even less and
it shows the cars on track better then without (a race is a linear event
somehow, even if they come back around, the changes in velocity depending on
the track is very minimal and can be predicted).

    Even if for whatever reason it cannot be transmitted to a live-feed, you
could download the race later, as it's tweaked after the race.  Full-race
download aren't large, perhaps 50megs.  It's really not big, considering
that the race is 3-4 hours in length.  Download as you watch the race.
Wouldn't that be amazing, really?  Think of it everybody!!!  Oh and pay me
if you want to know the full thing (I have a big business plan about that
idea lol) ;)))

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Regrettably no, the pilots aren't allowed to do that.  There are way too
many helicopters in the air around the rally to permit following drivers.
And of course you will have an official chopper doing exactly that to take
the footage we love on TV, concentrating on following the car a closely as
possible and not paying much attention to other air traffic.

However, once we were transiting from one private spectator point to another
one, and "just happened" to follow the rally route along a ridge and down
into a valley, with Tommi Makkinen and his Lancer a few hundred feet below
us the whole way.  Coincidental, of course...

GMF