rec.autos.simulators

by **ymenar** » Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Charles Mak wrote :

LOL. Mr. Troll,

If Geoff does a 1970 F1 simulator, it won't feel, act, do, like nothing we
tried.
'Cause 1970 F1 cars are VERY different than 1967 cars <g>.

Maybe you should spend more time lurking, that wouldn't hurt. Do you know
there is a FAQ also ?.

Btw, there is still around 90% of the SimRacing community who thinks that
Papyrus modeled adequately GPLegends.

Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Sponsored by http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

by **Todd** » Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:00:00

>I'm with you 100% but looks like the "arcaders" in this newsgroup have the
>upperhand. No need to worry though, they are just lost souls and not worth
>saving. Maybe Geoff Crammond will come out with his version simulating the
>1970 season. He will get it right if he takes a stab at it.

Ha Ha
You cant do it can you Chuck. You Havant got the skill required to run the
fast laps. Have you ever seen a sprint car race. 1000 hp cars on half mile
dirt tracks and they use every horse. For the best drivers its just like an
arcade game flat out all the way but for the unskilled it is impossible.
Go back to your GP2 If you want to pretend your a real race car driver. Go
fast brake here then turn wheel there and all the rest is done for you. Or
race the sim the race drivers race GPL.
Todd.

by **Antoine Renau** » Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:00:00

>Just because the drivers didn't hold opposite lock doesn't
>necessarily mean that they couldn't. I'm just guessing here,
>and maybe someone that knows more about it can say more
>definitively, but wouldn't holding the slide wear down the
>tires more? Perhaps quick stabs is the way to drive it, even
>in GPL.

I guess we'll see that when the full version comes out... Maybe then
it'll only be possible to finish a race if you can correctly manage
your tires.

A. Renault

by **Grant Reev** » Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> <stuff about opposite lock>

In GPL i can do some pretty lengthy controlled slides with a lot of
opposite lock too, but whenever i find myself doing this, i also
notice that my speed isn't increasing as fast as when I have the car
under more control requiring only little bursts of opposite lock
correction, since the rear wheels are a little too loose giving too
much of a slip angle and scrubbing speed. So I suspect the reason
why you didn't see those drivers in the video using a lot of lengthy
opposite lock is because that's not the quickest way to drive. And
it's also pretty *** on tyre temperature and wear, which is not yet
modelled in this GPL demo. In a real race I would imagine a real driver
will drive in a manner that prolongs the tyres life and performance.

I'm really looking forward to GPL hopefully having a very realistic
damage model where we can trash tyres from overdriving them, ruin
the engine from overrevving, grind the gearbox into dust from not
matches revs, etc, etc:) it will be much more challenging, rewarding
and realistic if your race results depend on how well you treat the
car.

Grant.

by **'John' Joao Sil** » Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:00:00

>I'm with you 100% but looks like the "arcaders" in this newsgroup have the
>upperhand. No need to worry though, they are just lost souls and not worth
>saving. Maybe Geoff Crammond will come out with his version simulating the
>1970 season. He will get it right if he takes a stab at it.
>>because you could see so much more of the driver in those days.

Yeah and if we're lucky Crammond might release it by 2070, and by then
it may or may not have weather effects.

Cheers.
--John
--
*kludger AT zipcon DOT com* | ICQ #7522564 contact me at:
Seattle, Washington USA. | http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7522564

by **Jim Sokolof** » Thu, 16 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> Now first let me say that I love GPL :0) ..OK, the opposite lock
> that I see in the old days on speedvision, etc., is done in quick
> little corrective bursts. Sometimes there are several corrections
> made in the space of a couple of seconds, little twitches on the
> wheel it looks like. This is very obvious because you could see so
> much more of the driver in those days.

> In GPL, the opposite lock you can(I didn't say MUST) use is very
> different. In GPL I can hold a correction for rather a long time,
> in fact it struck me right away how long you could hold opposite
> lock!

Sure, get the car enough out of shape, and you can hold it all day if
you like and have the skill.

Logical flaw in your argument:
A. It's possible to hold opposite lock in GPL.
B. I watched a lot of race coverage and didn't see anyone doing it in
the 67 F1 season.
C. Therefore, it wasn't possible to do A in '67 F1.
D. Therefore, GPL is undeniably broken.

C doesn't follow from B, by the following:

It was an option, but it was slow, so the top drivers (and almost by
definition, the drivers you saw footage of were top drivers :-) )
didn't do it. They *could* have, but chose not to.

One thing to keep in mind is that you are watching what control inputs
generated the fastest laps when you watch professionals do it. The
fact that they DID apply short bursts of lock, keeping the car
drifting with low steer angles only means that's what they found was
fastest, not that they COULDN'T do long slides with constant opposite
lock.

Go down to your local Skip Barber (or general equivalent) school and
watch the formula cars drive around. I can go to Lime Rock, hang the
back end out, and do long lurid SLOW slides around Big Bend and turn
3. Or, I can watch my instructor beat me by several seconds in split
times by keeping the car neater and more neutral through there.

Or, I can go to the car control clinic skid pad, put the back end 30
degrees out, and do LAP after LAP of powerslides with opposite lock
(THIS IS WORTH THE PRICE OF THE COURSE BTW! :-) ). Doesn't make it the
fast way around, but it's possible.

So, one CAN hang it out and slide around, but if one filmed top
drivers in that same section (to show later on SpeedVision), you would
see drivers applying rapid small corrections and never getting to 20
degrees of yaw and full opposite lock.

---Jim

rec.autos.simulators

opposite-lock was applied in 'bursts' ,not in a continuous 'hold' (in 67')

opposite-lock was applied in 'bursts' ,not in a continuous 'hold' (in 67')

opposite-lock was applied in 'bursts' ,not in a continuous 'hold' (in 67')

opposite-lock was applied in 'bursts' ,not in a continuous 'hold' (in 67')

opposite-lock was applied in 'bursts' ,not in a continuous 'hold' (in 67')

opposite-lock was applied in 'bursts' ,not in a continuous 'hold' (in 67')

opposite-lock was applied in 'bursts' ,not in a continuous 'hold' (in 67')