rec.autos.simulators

Speaking for myself, I bought a PS2 not for racing games, but for other
games such as SSX Tricky, Grand Theft Auto 3, Madden Football, etc. Since
I am also a sim fan, I bought the Gran Turismo 3 pack which included GT3
with the PS2. It's a fun game but not a sim (we have had that discussion
already.) The graphics in GT3 are stunning though and honestly, that is
the main reason that I play it. Watching a replay is amazing, and far
ahead of any graphics yet seen on the PC.

To answer your question though, I don't think that sim racers buy
consoles FOR racing sims. We buy them for other games and since we also
have racing interests, end up buying those titles as well.

--
__________________________
Todd Walker
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
__________________________

You forgot to mention GP3.

Gerry

SCGT is the only game on the PC that compares favorably with Gran Tourismo 3
on the PS2 with respect to variety of cars. SCGT is probably the racing game
that I play the most of either console or PC racers, simply because I can
tweak the individual car models  physics model attributes,sounds, and addon
numerous tracks and cars, and fiddle with the game in more ways than you can
with any PC racer that I have ever owned, let alone console racers. This
level of being able to modify and customize a racer to your personal
preferences is a major advantage for PC games, but it may not always be
exclusive to PC games. However , for the present time it is a significant
reason why I still play PC sims moreso than console sims or arcade racers.
Then there is the awesome physics modeling of PC sims like GPL and F1 2001,
which are superior to physics modeling in any console game ever made, but
with the advent of GT3 and F355 the gap has closed substantially with
respect to physics modelling.
 Nonetheless,nothing on the PC really equals GT3 with respect to graphics on
the replays, aside from a bit of a jaggy problem seemingly inherent to PS2
games, but fairly absent with the XBOX antialiasing. Bump mapped asphalt
that glistens realistically with pebbly graininess in the sunlight or from
colored street lighting as the rain falls . The most photorealistic car
models in all of console or PC racing, highly detailed with the finest
reflection mapping there is in any racer. Shadows within shadows, soft
shadows and hard shadows that change realistically with sunlight elevation
and direction. Cars which move realistically on there suspensions in
replays, ( except when they collide with the brain dead A.I. cars or
fences).A force feedback effect with the Logitech wheel that is as good as
any PC sim short of GPL or F1 2001, and better than SCGT. Frame rates that
are silky smooth under all situations. Landscape that just looks so much
more real on a 36 inch TV than it could ever appear even on a high rez 19
inch monitor. You almost feel like ducking when you go through a tunnel or
under a bridge. Dolby digital 5.1 sound on the XBOX in dedicated hardware,
and through software on the PS2, sounds so much better through my stereo
system than games sound over my pc's tiny subwoofer and 4 channel soundcard.
Until you play GT3 or an XBOX racer you will not know what kind of graphic
potential remains locked up in a Geforce 4 level card, hamstrung by the
compromises of programming racers for the PC's varied and ever changing
architecture. I love both PC and console racers equally well. My ego is not
tied to what system I play games on, I just want to always have the widest
possible options in choice of games, so I own a Dreamcast for Ferrari F355
the most difficult console sim, a PS2 for GT3 the best looking all around
racer, an XBOX because of its potential, two PC's one with a fast Athlon and
a good videocard for *** and the other for general purposes.
There's no way I would limit myself to just one format. Also, there are just
too many other genres of games that are light years ahead graphically on the
consoles compared to the PC. As far as not being able to patch games for the
console, it is a two edged sword. First off, too many PC games are rushed
out before they are truly ready because the makers can simply force you to
patch them to get them to run correctly. It really should not be this way,
and is sometimes frustrating and aggravating to have to search for or wait
for a patch that will keep the game from crashing your system perpetually.
On consoles, you almost will never have a game crash. I have only
experienced 3 different games over the last 3 years that have crashed at
all, and those crashes were so rare that it was shocking when they happened.
Console games are simply super reliable and super stable.
By contrast, I can barely remember any of my PC racing games that have NOT
crashed at one time or another. As for the advantage of being able to
enhance PC games with patches, this will no doubt NOT be exclusive to PC
games in the future, since the XBOX has a highspeed DSL/Cable modem
connector as well as a harddrive for storage, and the PS2 is coming out with
an addon Harddrive/ modem option. Patches and upgrades to games will be
offered at some point over the next year or two. Aside from those who are
just PC centric snobs, there is no real reason not to explore your options.
Besides, an XBOX or a PS2 do not cost that much, $250 to $299. If you buy
one you can rent games for about a dollar a day, and never have to waste
your money buying a game that you don't like or waste time getting a refund.
You might even find that there is more to *** than just PC racing sims,
even for those of us who love racing sims its nice to play a little Madden
football, NBA LIVE, ATV Offroad, Tekken 4, Castle Wolfenstein, etc.
However, if you want to only play PC sims exclusively, then by all means
hide your head in the sand and forever chant  " all console racers are and
always will be ARCADE " " all console racers are and always will be ARCADE "
" all console racers are and always will be ARCADE ", and tell yourself that
all console racers are for the " kiddies" or " the ingnorant unsophisticated
masses ", and never ever ever cast your eyes on a console racer lest you be
tempted to the DARKSIDE and find yourself a CLOSET CONSOLE RACER.  Never
able to admit your secret shameful ***ed double life in this newsgroup.
Always having to cover your admitting to having played a console game by
saying, " well I bought a PS2 and an XBOX just so my kids would have
something to play games on, and I might have dabbled around with one of
their games for a minute or two, but I swear I didn't enjoy it, honestly " .

Why?

Simple: no hardware conflicts to***around with endlessly.

And, with companies writing driving/racing titles for use with wheels (i.e.
Gran Turismo 3 was written for use with a Logitec wheel, and I believe this
wheel will also work with EA's F1 2001) and the line is already starting to
blur.

Also, the xBox is essentially a 12 month old Pentium computer with a TV
output. So as time passes it will be easier and easier for game developers
to release both their titles for PC users AND set console users (for xBox at
least).

For me personally, I'm really tired of dealing with all the hardware issues
of PC racing. Every time a new game comes out, it seems like something needs
to be upgraded or fiddled with ("Damn! Wheel wont calibrate ... What?! Now
it's not seeing the peddles ... OK 2 hours later and I'm ready to race!").

Buying a console (and I haven't gotten one yet) allows a person to power the
thing up, drop in a disc and start playing. A year from now, I could get the
latest version of F1 2003 and do the same thing without worrying.

And that makes owning a console a very attractive option for me.

TB

Brilliant quote from Julius Ceaser. Is it for real?

TB

lol, well I dont weigh the same as a duck so I should be ok ...

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:45:32 +0100, "Jone Tytlandsvik"

   But if we now have popular sims that suffer from immature online
racers (say NR2002), the maturity level will likely be even lower on a
console platform.  Will the console programmers give us options like
password-protected races or kicking trouble-makers?...

   Online console racing may be coming, but *good quality* online
console racing may be a bit longer than soon.

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Good points all around guys...

I guess that, like a Mac, having the specs
set-in-stone would allow much better
code optimization.

Unfortuantely, I didn't even consider the
whole mod aspect.
Collecting mods for my driving sims is a ***.
Nascar Heat, F1 2001, SCGT, Nascar Legends.
I have 12! back-up CDs for SCGT alone.

As far as "constant"upgrades to my PC, I buy
a new computer about every two years. My last
733PIII/GeForce256 held it's age pretty good
until a November 1600+AMD/GeForce3 Ti200.
I never upgraded the PIII. And it served me well.
Now it's a super stand-alone digital video editor.
I don't see buying new hardware every six months
just to run the latest game full-blown.
Although, I wonder if I'll get the same longevity
of the 256 with the GF3 Ti200.

Thanks for all the feedback...

_________________________

I bought an Xbox for a lot of different reasons, not just for driving
games.  But with reference to driving games, it's kind of fun being able
to play them on the couch in my living room, and also it's the only way
I can get my LAN buddies to play driving games with me, since they
aren't interested enough to go out and buy driving games themselves.
For a *** sim I guess I would still rather have it on a PC, but I
also like arcade racers and playing 4 player split-screen Project Gotham
Racing on the Xbox with my buddies is a blast.

Heh, I guess I should have read the whole thread before I posted, I just
put up essentially the same opinion.  I agree with you 100%.  There is
room for both in my house.

As far as I know, yes it is.

--

Fester

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the
citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a
double-edged sword. It both emboldens the ***, just as it narrows the
mind.  And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the
*** boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no
need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry,
infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their
rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I
have done. And I am Caesar."   -- Julius Caesar

"Tony Borroz" wrote ...

Except for the fact that the cool new F1 2003 game is made for the PS3, and
just won't work on your PS2.  No upgrade, right.

In that case yes, but from what I understand, the PS3 isn't coming out for
quite a while. And, Sony seems to be on the track of backward compatibility
for games. For instance, Colin McRea rally 2.0 can run on a PS2 (which is
good, because there's no rally games for the PS in N America), so you should
still be able to run PS2 games (F1 2001 etc) on a PS3.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind buying a new console every 3 years, and on top of
that, the xBox looks like it might be around for a while in it's current
standard, so that should give some platform stability (which is an ironic
statement concerning something from Microsoft).

TB

While it's not quite on par with GPL/N2002 or Rally Trophy, F355 on
the Dreamcast is a great sim.  It certainly compares favorably with F1
2001, and is the primary reason I bought a Dreamcast (the others being
Jet Grind Radio and Virtua Fighter 3tb, both of which are fantastic
=).  The only problem I'm having is finding a good
Dreamcast-compatible wheel.  The ones I've tried so far have
deadzones, which makes them useless imho.

The Dreamcast versions of Le Mans 24 Hours and Cart Flag-to-Flag are
both fun despite being arcadish.  Pretty much everything else leans to
the arcade side of Porsche Unleashed.

Jason

Uhm, because they're fun? Put in the disc, turn it on
and sit back in the comfy chair? No drivers, conflicts,
performance issues?

Just to name a few.

Cheers,
Rod.