rec.autos.simulators

>I think, it's just amazing how confused people are about the meaning
>of the word "patch". There are NO features covered by it, just bugs.
>So even a physics model of less than GPL-standard (the reference now)
>is not a bug, but a missing feature, which is included in a new version.

>l8er
>ronny

>> I really have to agree with you. The moaning about this small amount
>> of money is getting on my nerves. For me there are enough reasons to
>> buy the new version. The GP of Austria gave me some really exciting
>> hours.
>> I think this will be a very good simulation.
>> Hermann Kauer.

>>I think, it's just amazing how confused people are about the meaning
>>of the word "patch". There are NO features covered by it, just bugs.
>>So even a physics model of less than GPL-standard (the reference now)
>>is not a bug, but a missing feature, which is included in a new version.

>>l8er
>>ronny

>    True enough, people, it's not the national debt we're talking about,
but
>that's not really the point.  The point is the RELATIVE value offered by
the
>two products. Nobody's telling anyone what to do with their OWN money here.
>Whatever the weaknesses of MGPRS, if it's simply lacking the bugs of F1RS,
>it'll be a better product due to the lack of aggravation.  I suppose I'm  a
bit
>jaundiced by my disappointment with all the bugs, and resulting need for
>patches, in F1RS.  I tried ALL the known tricks to sort it out, from
patches to
>deadzone to hardware, but never was happy with it. The primary experience
was
>one of frustration and displeasure, rather than enjoyment.  As for the
meaning
>of "patches", I seem to remember UBI adding support for force feedback and
3D
>sound among the "bug" fixes, and Microsoft's "patch" of CPR certainly went
far
>beyond that, into new menu items, altered AI, and the like.  I'd personally
>have to call those "features", as manufacturers often tout them as such.
But
>for all of you who love F1RS and MGPRS as is, great..fine..wonderful.
>Remember, though, it's the whiners who spur product improvements through
>wanting more and better, and by complaining about bugs and shortcomings.
So
>don't be so SENSITIVE.  Opposing opinions only have power when they're
shared.
>Happy driving.

>>Steve,
>>What were (are) the main causes of your 'frustration and displeasure' with
>>F1RS?
>>Iain

>    My frustration related mainly to the poor menus and awful sound.(for
other
>problems, refer to my first post)  Having to reload configurations and
setups
>every time you run the game gets to be annoying, (particularly with the
slow
>menus)and all the other sim programmers seem to have noticed this; why not
UBI?
> The sound barely worked at all initially with my Audio PCI board, and
while
>the 3D sound patch partly solved that, it's still buggy, cutting out
randomly,
>and has an in/out quality at low revs.  The modulation is all wrong, a
problem
>that, again, other driving games seem to have bypassed, even old ones; why
not
>UBI?  As for the quality, well, it was pathetic, as we all know;
unexcusably
>so.  Thanks are indeed due those who've worked to improve the sound, but
who at
>UBI listened to that and said "yeah, that's got  it."?
>    As for the disappointment, that's due to the driving model, which for
me is
>the heart of a sim.  I don't fault them for not being at the GPL-level.
>Neither are GP2 or ICR2, but they're more realistic than F1RS.  The car's
>movements in F1RS just don't correspond closely enough to what you'd expect
in
>reality.  The other two sims mentioned aren't perfect, but they're closer,
in
>my opinion.  I've gotten sideways in F1RS and braked to a FULL stop, and
when I
>released the brake, the car resumed the spin for another 180 degrees or so.
>That's a canned, arcadish routine, which I think describes a lot of the
>problem.  It "feels" like a computer or arcade game, not a simulation of
the
>real thing.  It just doesn't do what it should.
>    I should note that while I'm no Ayrton Senna (though I did have the
>pleasure of watching him win a GP at Spa in '88), I do have a fair bit of
>racing experience in a Yamaha KT100 Kart, as well as years of Motocross and
>Flatracking on motorbikes.  No F1 car, to be sure, but a lot of time
exploring
>the limit of adhesion(from both sides!).  So I know well what happens on
the
>far side of it.  No longer active in racing, I picked up GP2 on a lark last
>year and was amazed at the familiar old feelings it elicited.  It got me
into
>this sim thing, and the newer games (CPR & F1RS) have all proved to be
>disappointing.  Fancy graphics, yes, but lacking the "real" feel needed for
>true immersion, at least for this guy.  GPL may well have it; I hope the
final
>version is workable with my P200mmx/8mb V2 setup.  The demo certainly looks
>promising.  I think the posts complaining about GPL's difficulty are
revealing
>of how little people appreciate the difficulty of driving on "the edge" for
an
>extended time.
>    To  wrap this novel up, I'd just say if you enjoy whatever sim you're
>driving, don't worry if someone else doesn't.  But if you have complaints,
by
>all means share them, as that's how things get better.  Thanks for
listening.

>Steve B.

>>>Man you guys are such losers.

>>Do you really need to say things like that ?
>>(you must be a real winner ?)

>>I did not see anybody complain when Gp2 was
>>>released.  It could also be viewed as World Circuit Version 1.1., which
>>didn't
>>>have rain, and still had terrible graphics.  Remember the invisible pit
>>wall in
>>>Australia?
>>>How the hell can you call MGP version 1.1 of F1RS, when Ubisoft patched
>the
>>>original ~ 6 times????

>>Many people that bought the first version of F1RS had to suffer through
>>all these patches.
>>were we "used" as testers for MGP ?.......did we pay to be testers ?
>>Do you think it cost UBI that much $ to make MGP ?
>>I think that all people are saying is that it would be nice for UBI to
>>give owners of F1RS A BREAK on the price of MGP, is that to much to ask ?
>>I know that MGP is not really a patch for F1RS (there are many
>improvements)
>>but owners of F1RS should get a break !!!!!!
>>fair is fair....dont you think ?

>>>Now refresh my memeory, how many times has Microprose
>>>patched GP2???
>>>We have only seen 1/10th of the full game, without the scenario and
career
>>>modes which are completely new, not to mention the retro mode, yet you
>guys
>>>still complain.
>>>Somehow I have a feeling that if Crammond releases another  simulation
>that
>>is
>>>poorly coded, you guys will hail it as the best thing since sliced bread.
>>>No matter what Ubisoft does, or they intensely they support their
>products,
>>>there is just no pleasing some people.

>>If I (F1RS owner) would be offered MGP for around $25 (Canadian) I would
>>buy it, no problem........But if I need to pay "full" cost for a game that
>I
>>helped devolep,
>>and is really just an improved version of F1RS  then I just dont think
that
>>is fair and I will
>>wait to see how good GP3 is before I buy another sim at full price
>>(I am sure GP3 will be more than just an improved GP2)
>>and I think I have every right to post this type of comment.

>>>So do us all a favour, and don't buy the %%$$ game.  Your
>>>negativity is not needed.

>>I (and many people like me) have every right to post our feelings
>>(good, bad or indifferent)
>>The only thing that "is not needed" is your one sided (speak for everyone)
>>attitude !!!!!!!.

>>Do you work for UBISOFT ?

>>Lorne

>>I'm almost tempted to send you the purchase price myself! Sad, very sad.
>>Iain

>You wouldnt think it`s so "sad" if you bought F1RS for "full price"
>less than a month ago.........

>Not everyone has a ton of money like you........ I need to save all the cash
>I can
>because I am a street kid (living on the street) and I need to buy food for
>my rats
>so that they can stay in top shape and keep the treadmill in their cage
>spinning
>at a high rate of speed........(it`s the only way to power my pc).
>You should have known......

>Lorne