rec.autos.simulators

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Yes it is Brock, and whats more we are flaming the guy who taught
Cannonballers how to cook a 3 course meal on your engine block and
exhaust manifold while driving cross country...shame on us...
dave :) henrie

> Is this the same Brock Yates of Road & Track (or was it Car & Driver) fame?
> The same bloke who wrote the supposedly definitive biography on Enzo
> Ferrari? Can't be HIM, surely?

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

> > Too damn right. One of the very few occasion I want to physically harm
> > someone because of their online behavior. This Yates guy should be hung,
> > quartered and drawn!!

> > Jan.
> > =---

> > <snip>
> > > Could anybody please tell Mr. Yates that his underground source is
> saying
> > > rubbish lies? 3million$ per year? that made my day LMAO!!!!!!

by **Jon Wille** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>> >This is a crock of shit.

>> Hmmm, I'm not sure, but it could be that using the converter is a
>> violation of the terms of agreement you agreed with when installing
>> the game.....

>The terms of the EULA are subsidiary to law, which specifically allow "fair
>use" of legally obtained code. Since the converter only allows, in fact
>requires, legally licensed code it falls under fair use.

>As someone else has pointed out, legally this is nothing more than tearing
>the pages out of books, rearanging them, and scribbling in the margins.

I'm not sure fair use is relevant here. A case could be made that the
converter is a derivative work. Also, Dave has clearly done some
reverse engineering, which the license agreement forbids. I wouldn't
bet my house on a business that depends on the grace of a for-profit
company.

The point is moot. It would be PR suicide for Sierra/Papyrus to go
after Dave. If they cared, they would have said so by now. (You
can't so much as say "Florida" on Sierra's NASCAR forum these days.)
It's not his first converter--and, hopefully, not his last.

I'm all for converters (well, I'd rather they weren't necessary), and
Sierra/Papyrus should like them, too. Alison Hine has a whole section
on her web site about how to buy the Rendition-ready of CART Racing
[1]. Papyrus can tell distributors and retailers that its games still
sell four years later!

--Jon
_____
1. <http://simracing.com/alison/gpl/cart/cart.htm>.

by **Andre Warrin** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Use the demo converter at www.theuspits.com, it contains other tracks
than those in the full version, including Bristol.

Andre

>How do you get Bristol to work with the converter?

>> I found this news at the Apex forum (http://www.racesimcentral.net/), posted
>by
>> one Johnny Lugnuts:

>> from Yates' column at www.speedvision.com
>> ---------

>> Good news for racing simulation geeks; bad news for Papyrus, the big
>player
>> in that popular industry. My underground source, J.J. Hunsecker II, tells
>me
>> that a Brit computer genius named Dave Noonan has developed a program
>> whereby you can run your 1967 "Grand Prix Legends" Formula 1 cars on any
>one
>> of almost 30 road courses and speedways. Want to try your V12 AAR Eagle on
>> the Bristol half-mile? How about a Lotus 49 at Elkhart Lake, or a BRM at
>> Suzuka, or maybe Imola? It's all possible, thanks to ol' Dave and his
>> skunkworks, surely located in a scuzzy ba***t somewhere in the Midlands.
>> Needless to say, this development is akin to tearing out the pages of a
>book
>> and re-arranging them and therefore calls into question whether or not
>> copyrights are actually infringed; this has to make the guys at Papyrus
>> nuts. My man J.J. says that it's costing Papyrus over $3m a year. Yet to
>be
>> tried are Winston Cup stockers from the "NASCAR Racing" series on great
>road
>> courses like Spa and the Nurburgring, which is of course possible with
>> Noonan's program. Apparently the stock-car gamers don't care about road
>> courses, although the "GP Legends" gang are having a grand old time
>> experimenting on all manner of obscure tracks..

>> -------

>> --DK

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> And now I just looked at the column. There's a picture of him leaning on an
> old racer. That's the same Brock Yates we all know and love. And the bit
> on GPL is written in his usual style. Like I said, I think it will do more
> good than harm. As long as Noonan can live with the public expose of his
> scuzzy ba***t, then I think there is no harm done. Let's hope the zealots
> here don't go overboard on the factual details.

Like I said, too bad he didn't provide a link to a few GPL sites while
he was at it, especially "The Converter" (TM) link of course, but
anything to recruit a few new members to "The GPL Clan" (TM David
Fisher), or the sim racing community in general would have been nice....

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.racesimcentral.net/
"The Pits" http://www.racesimcentral.net/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Had a lot on your mind today didn't you Dave, you really ought to take
the Dodge for a spin and get out some built up frustrations :-)))

...oh, and well said, I didn't see it as a negative post towards David
Noonan at all

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

by **Don Hancock (** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Not if it takes them 2 years to issue an upgrade. The WHOLE reason I'm
considering buying GPL (yes, I'm still a holdout!) is to get the tracks to
N3. If the converter works for this, I'm probably going to have to give it
a shot. By EXTENDING a game and making it more useful over a longer period,
once word gets out, sales would HAVE to increase as a wider customer base
gets drawn in...

Gunner

by **Kevin Gavit** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> > Too damn right. One of the very few occasion I want to physically harm
> > someone because of their online behavior. This Yates guy should be hung,
> > quartered and drawn!!

> "This Yates guy" may be a bit abrasive at times, but he's been kicking
> around North American automobile journalism since the days of Bruce
> Kennewell's youth (grin). He's often entertaining to read, and has a
> definite passion for all things automotive, and especially for racing.
The
> purer the racing, the better. He was one of the original "Cannonball Run"
> guys who went ripping across America coast-to-coast on a whim in a Ferrari
> Daytona. As has been said before, I see the blurb as something in the
> category of "any publicity is good publicity". Yates seems to truly like
> the concept of the converter. It could have been more factually correct,
> but I think the end result will be that more people will look for GPL, the
> converter and old Papy catalog titles.

> Stephen

He wasn't just "one of the original" Cannonball guys, he is THE Cannonball
guys. He was the inventor, promoter, orginizer, etc.

He is also the ultimate recored holder for the event with his codriver, some
guy named Gurney.

He wrote a book about it. Check out your local library. Hell of a read.

Kevin F. Gavitt

by **Rikanthr** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

and whats more we are flaming the guy who taught
Cannonballers how to cook a 3 course meal on your engine block and
exhaust manifold while driving cross country
How do you get Bristol to work with the converter?

No, no, no, the question is, where do you put the mashed potatoes?
Rik Anthrax
-
-
it's a GPL kinda day :)

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> Had a lot on your mind today didn't you Dave, you really ought to take
> the Dodge for a spin and get out some built up frustrations :-)))

^^^^
have you been watching my replays????
dave ;) henrie

by **Kevin Gavit** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Reverse engineering has been declared legal in the US by the courts, no
matter what the EULA says.

It also isn't a derivitive work, since it includes *no* code of Papy's.
None. This is crucial. He converts already legally licensed code. You must
BUY this code from Papy. His code contains NONE of Papy's code.

As an analogy, he isn't selling you a different version of a book, he is
selling you an entirely new work in parralel to an existing one. Like an
annotation that is purchased seperately and contains no part of the original
book.

What's more, US law dosn't really apply since Mr. Noonan resides in and is a
resident of the UK, where reverse engineering is also legal, and US law
states that if the reverse engineering is done in a legal fashion at the
origin it is legal to distribute in the US.

The EULA means very little. Only the law applies.

by **Kirk Lan** » Sat, 08 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Your innards shall be removed and burned in front of you...
Then you shall be quartered by four large horses...
And the quarters shall be quartered again by four smaller horses...
And those quarters shall be quartered again by four ponies...
And those quarters shall be quartered by four frogs.

LOL!!!

--
Kirk Lane

ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187

"Yeah you won't find me
I'm going MIA
Tonight I'm leaving
Going MIA
Getting lost in you again
Is better than being known"
-Foo Fighters, "MIA"

> Too damn right. One of the very few occasion I want to physically harm
> someone because of their online behavior. This Yates guy should be hung,
> quartered and drawn!!

> Jan.
> =---

> <snip>
> > Could anybody please tell Mr. Yates that his underground source is
saying
> > rubbish lies? 3million$ per year? that made my day LMAO!!!!!!

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 09 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Aah! That's great. I thought Yates had headed off to the Cannoball Run in
the Sky some time ago.......nice to hear (read!) that he's still as much a
stirrer now as he was in his heyday.

Good stuff! Thanks, Stephen.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> And now I just looked at the column. There's a picture of him leaning on
an
> old racer. That's the same Brock Yates we all know and love. And the bit
> on GPL is written in his usual style. Like I said, I think it will do
more
> good than harm. As long as Noonan can live with the public expose of his
> scuzzy ba***t, then I think there is no harm done. Let's hope the
zealots
> here don't go overboard on the factual details.

> Stephen

> > Is this the same Brock Yates of Road & Track (or was it Car & Driver)
> fame?
> > The same bloke who wrote the supposedly definitive biography on Enzo
> > Ferrari? Can't be HIM, surely?

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------

> > > Too damn right. One of the very few occasion I want to physically harm
> > > someone because of their online behavior. This Yates guy should be
hung,
> > > quartered and drawn!!

> > > Jan.
> > > =---

> > > <snip>
> > > > Could anybody please tell Mr. Yates that his underground source is
> > saying
> > > > rubbish lies? 3million$ per year? that made my day LMAO!!!!!!

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 09 Apr 2000 04:00:00

That's a sad situation. This guy gave true meaning to the words "Political
Correctness? What the &^%$ is THAT?!" when it came to all things motoring.
Instead of sending him a flaming arrow one should be buying him a beer....or
several :-)

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

by **David Butte** » Sun, 09 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I suppose Sierra *could* put a clause in the EULA, to the effect that,
if the anti-reverse-engineering part of it were to be found unlawful,
then you couldn't use the game at all. But seeing as that would mean
no-one could use it in the US or the UK, it would be pretty pointless.

I'm also fairly sure that ther has been a UK ruling to the effect that
you *can* modify proprietary code if the sole purpose is to make the
program functional (ie, you can change the code for a bug-fix).

--
David.
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

by **snakehand** » Sun, 09 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> The WHOLE reason I'm
>considering buying GPL (yes, I'm still a holdout!) is to get the tracks to
>N3. If the converter works for this, I'm probably going to have to give it
>a shot.

Wont work mate, converts tracks to GPL, not from GPL to the likes of N3.

Cheers

Gerry

rec.autos.simulators

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!

GPL --Noonan! Watch your back!