rec.autos.simulators

> > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift.  Same
> racing
> What's a throttle blip?

> You make a good point.  Just exactly where is your shift point?

> Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it is.
> There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol...

> But in a racing sim...its not so obvious.  Perhaps you could start a new
> post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a
racing
> sim?"  I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good
> information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less
> engines)!

> I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines.

> In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road
> courses.  Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 rpms....when
> pushing it.  However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a
> clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift.  Same
racing
> sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this
manner
> (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark Martin
> running at Sears.  Bill Elliott uses the same technique too.  I don't know
> if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until
just
> now....reading your post.

> Regards,

> Tom

> > writes:

> > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itself
> in
> > >the name.  You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit.  The key
is -
> > >you do it in every gear!  Example:  Let's say you normally would shift
> your
> > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit).  So....first gear you run up to
8,000
> > >rpm - shift to second.  Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to
> > >third.....etc.

> > Interesting.  I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they berate
> me for
> > shifting too soon.  I do it normally as a matter of course.  I think it
> might
> > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift early
to
> avoid
> > engine damage.  Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be
> shifting.
> > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5 in
4
> years
> > of online racing).  Doesn't help me win any, though...<g>

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> --
> Scott B. Husted
> PA-Scott
> ICQ# 4395450
> http://www.Husted.cc

> > Eldred...

> > You make a good point.  Just exactly where is your shift point?

> > Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it
is.
> > There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol...

> > But in a racing sim...its not so obvious.  Perhaps you could start a new
> > post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a
> racing
> > sim?"  I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good
> > information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less
> > engines)!

> > I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines.

> > In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road
> > courses.  Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 rpms....when
> > pushing it.  However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a
> > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift.  Same
> racing
> > sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this
> manner
> > (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark Martin
> > running at Sears.  Bill Elliott uses the same technique too.  I don't
know
> > if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until
> just
> > now....reading your post.

> > Regards,

> > Tom

> > > writes:

> > > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains
itself
> > in
> > > >the name.  You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit.  The key
> is -
> > > >you do it in every gear!  Example:  Let's say you normally would
shift
> > your
> > > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit).  So....first gear you run up to
> 8,000
> > > >rpm - shift to second.  Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to
> > > >third.....etc.

> > > Interesting.  I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they
berate
> > me for
> > > shifting too soon.  I do it normally as a matter of course.  I think
it
> > might
> > > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift early
> to
> > avoid
> > > engine damage.  Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be
> > shifting.
> > > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5
in
> 4
> > years
> > > of online racing).  Doesn't help me win any, though...<g>

> > > Eldred
> > > --
> > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

> > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Good input, Dave.

> Also.....its good to hear from you.  I missed you at E3 this year...were
you
> guys there?

> Regards,

> Tom

> > At Skip Barber they used that technique with the Formula Dodge cars--on
> the
> > first day they gave you an RPM limit of 4000 or whatever, and then each
> > session they'd give you a progressively higher limit.  The first time
they
> > let us shift at the redline was pretty intense, with the little 2.0 L
> engine
> > making an incredible racket right behind my head...
> > -Dave P.

> > PS.  Another technique that I've learned for road courses, that would
work
> > for sims, is to spend a fair amount of time just driving the course in
my
> > head.  (This is also good for learning how to land a plane).  One
> advantage
> > is that when I do it my head, I do it perfectly every time, so I'm not
> > practicing doing it wrong.  Also, it really makes me learn the track so
> I'm
> > thinking ahead, instead of just reacting to the track.  Usually at a
real
> > track, track time is very precious, so you spend a lot of time waiting
> > around with your brain going at 9000 RPM, whereas in a sim, it's too
easy
> > just to keep lapping blindly, because it's "free".  A few laps in the
> "brain
> > sim" might be a good alternative.  I have a hard time learning a track
> > normally, so this method might not help those who pretty much get the
> whole
> > layout down after a lap or two.  YMMV.

> > > LOL....Joe.......stop pouring gasoline on the fire, will ya?
> > ......lol.....

> > > TP

> > > > > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers,
> > > > especially
> > > > > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other
> drivers
> > > > > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience -
particularly
> > > those
> > > > > that I found adapted well to sim racing.  Last week I talked about
> > > driving
> > > > > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk."  Here's
> > > another
> > > > > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.]

> > > > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses**

> > > > <snipped entirely worthless training tool>

> > > > This is bullsh*t.  I don't even have to try this to know it is a
> > complete
> > > > waste of time.  I had a dream about short shifting and it didn't
work.
> > > This
> > > > is incontrovertible proof that it's a bad idea.  Now you may think I
> > > should
> > > > still try it but being a Jedi allows me to sense the effectiveness
and
> I
> > > > sense it is worthless.  As a Vulcan I find this approach completely
> > > > illogical.  I went to the David Powell Racing Academy where he
teaches
> > the
> > > > one right way to learn how to race.  This isn't that ONE way, so
> what's
> > > > wrong with you?

> > > > What is your obsession with all these creative and useful
approaches?
> > > > Please stop.

> > > > --
> > > > Joe Marques

> --
> Scott B. Husted
> PA-Scott
> ICQ# 4395450
> http://www.Husted.cc

> > If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"...  your shift
> > point is BEFORE this.   Repeat process until you make it through the
> corner.
> > <VBG>

> > --
> > Scott B. Husted
> > PA-Scott
> > ICQ# 4395450
> > http://www.Husted.cc

> > > Eldred...

> > > You make a good point.  Just exactly where is your shift point?

> > > Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it
> is.
> > > There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol...

> > > But in a racing sim...its not so obvious.  Perhaps you could start a
new
> > > post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a
> > racing
> > > sim?"  I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good
> > > information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less
> > > engines)!

> > > I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines.

> > > In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road
> > > courses.  Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800
rpms....when
> > > pushing it.  However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a
> > > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift.  Same
> > racing
> > > sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this
> > manner
> > > (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark
Martin
> > > running at Sears.  Bill Elliott uses the same technique too.  I don't
> know
> > > if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until
> > just
> > > now....reading your post.

> > > Regards,

> > > Tom

> > > > writes:

> > > > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains
> itself
> > > in
> > > > >the name.  You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit.  The
key
> > is -
> > > > >you do it in every gear!  Example:  Let's say you normally would
> shift
> > > your
> > > > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit).  So....first gear you run up to
> > 8,000
> > > > >rpm - shift to second.  Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to
> > > > >third.....etc.

> > > > Interesting.  I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they
> berate
> > > me for
> > > > shifting too soon.  I do it normally as a matter of course.  I think
> it
> > > might
> > > > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift
early
> > to
> > > avoid
> > > > engine damage.  Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be
> > > shifting.
> > > > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5
> in
> > 4
> > > years
> > > > of online racing).  Doesn't help me win any, though...<g>

> > > > Eldred
> > > > --
> > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > > > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

> > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Dave


> > BTW.. this is a sim only approach, do not try it in a real race car.  ;)

> > --
> > Scott B. Husted
> > PA-Scott
> > ICQ# 4395450
> > http://www.Husted.cc

> > > If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"...  your
shift
> > > point is BEFORE this.   Repeat process until you make it through the
> > corner.
> > > <VBG>

> > > --
> > > Scott B. Husted
> > > PA-Scott
> > > ICQ# 4395450
> > > http://www.Husted.cc

> > > > Eldred...

> > > > You make a good point.  Just exactly where is your shift point?

> > > > Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you
it
> > is.
> > > > There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol...

> > > > But in a racing sim...its not so obvious.  Perhaps you could start a
> new
> > > > post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a
> > > racing
> > > > sim?"  I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good
> > > > information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few
less
> > > > engines)!

> > > > I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines.

> > > > In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the
road
> > > > courses.  Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800
> rpms....when
> > > > pushing it.  However, for the last six months or so, I've been using
a
> > > > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift.
Same
> > > racing
> > > > sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this
> > > manner
> > > > (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark
> Martin
> > > > running at Sears.  Bill Elliott uses the same technique too.  I
don't
> > know
> > > > if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this
until
> > > just
> > > > now....reading your post.

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Tom

> > > > > writes:

> > > > > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains
> > itself
> > > > in
> > > > > >the name.  You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit.  The
> key
> > > is -
> > > > > >you do it in every gear!  Example:  Let's say you normally would
> > shift
> > > > your
> > > > > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit).  So....first gear you run up
to
> > > 8,000
> > > > > >rpm - shift to second.  Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to
> > > > > >third.....etc.

> > > > > Interesting.  I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they
> > berate
> > > > me for
> > > > > shifting too soon.  I do it normally as a matter of course.  I
think
> > it
> > > > might
> > > > > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift
> early
> > > to
> > > > avoid
> > > > > engine damage.  Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be
> > > > shifting.
> > > > > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe
3-5
> > in
> > > 4
> > > > years
> > > > > of online racing).  Doesn't help me win any, though...<g>

> > > > > Eldred
> > > > > --
> > > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > > > > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

> > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> > > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift.  Same
> > racing

> > What's a throttle blip?

> A quick 'tap' or 'flick' of the throttle, in neutral or with
> the clutch disengaged, to increase engine revs (usually to
> rev-match during a downshift).

> Jonny

> Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it is.
> There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol...

> But in a racing sim...its not so obvious.  Perhaps you could start a new
> post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a racing
> sim?"  I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good
> information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less
> engines)!

> I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines.

> In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road
> courses.  Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 rpms....when
> pushing it.

> >If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"...  your shift
> >point is BEFORE this.   Repeat process until you make it through the
corner.
> ><VBG>

> I thought that was your BRAKE point...?

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> >If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"...  your shift
> >point is BEFORE this.   Repeat process until you make it through the corner.
> ><VBG>

> I thought that was your BRAKE point...?

> > >If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"...  your
shift
> > >point is BEFORE this.   Repeat process until you make it through the
corner.
> > ><VBG>

> > I thought that was your BRAKE point...?

> ....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not
> Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and
> shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a
> *very* exclusive club

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> http://www.theuspits.com

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--