rec.autos.simulators

by **Rafe McAuliff** » Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:09:50

Spot on, very, very bad call. I am also getting a little suspicious of
why people only get penalised for hitting a ferrari...

Rafe Mc

>Hello

>I'd like to SCREAM about the idiotic FIA steward (I think he is Charlie
>Whiting or something like that) who put the penalty on JPM for his
>"dangerous move" at the start...

>How can the guy at the OUTSIDE make a dangerous move AFTER he has taken his
>apex, he is going AWAY from the inside of the corner when MS hits him...

>Moreover I just saw the incam from RB and it is CLEAR that it is MS who is
>going "wide" to force JPM out, the point is that after the first RH corner
>there is a VERY tight LH, so JPM being on the outside slightly in front of
>MS had the PERFECT position to put his nose in the inside of the LH.

>I am no fan of either of them and I don't really care about the result, MS
>will be world champion again this year but I think FIA is getting to be more
>and more ridiculous with every race, they didn't do anything in Melbourne
>after the start crash so they figured out "we have to do something this
>time", in this case could someone, preferably from FIA explain why Panis
>didn't get anything for his "dangerous move" with De la Rosa and why Soong
>didn't get the same for his "dangerous move" on Irvine...maybe you only get
>penalized when you do something to a red car and not to a green one ?

>Can someone confirm if this Charlie FIA guy is the same who was deciding in
>Nurburgring 2 years ago for the penatly RS got wy exiting the pits over the
>yellow line ?

>Thx

by **Alan Gauto** » Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:32:03

> Spot on, very, very bad call. I am also getting a little suspicious of
> why people only get penalised for hitting a ferrari...

> Rafe Mc

> >Hello

> >I'd like to SCREAM about the idiotic FIA steward (I think he is Charlie
> >Whiting or something like that) who put the penalty on JPM for his
> >"dangerous move" at the start...

> >How can the guy at the OUTSIDE make a dangerous move AFTER he has taken his
> >apex, he is going AWAY from the inside of the corner when MS hits him...

> >Moreover I just saw the incam from RB and it is CLEAR that it is MS who is
> >going "wide" to force JPM out, the point is that after the first RH corner
> >there is a VERY tight LH, so JPM being on the outside slightly in front of
> >MS had the PERFECT position to put his nose in the inside of the LH.

> >I am no fan of either of them and I don't really care about the result, MS
> >will be world champion again this year but I think FIA is getting to be more
> >and more ridiculous with every race, they didn't do anything in Melbourne
> >after the start crash so they figured out "we have to do something this
> >time", in this case could someone, preferably from FIA explain why Panis
> >didn't get anything for his "dangerous move" with De la Rosa and why Soong
> >didn't get the same for his "dangerous move" on Irvine...maybe you only get
> >penalized when you do something to a red car and not to a green one ?

> >Can someone confirm if this Charlie FIA guy is the same who was deciding in
> >Nurburgring 2 years ago for the penatly RS got wy exiting the pits over the
> >yellow line ?

No - Charlie Whiting is not one of the stewards involved - as far as I
*recall* he is the FIA Safety and Technical delegate - he makes the calls
for safety cars/red flags etc., but is not responsible for driving
penalties. That's the job of a panel of stewards from 3 or 4 racing
associations around the world, and used to be different every race. They
decide if any driving or rule breach is dangerous/advantageous, and deal
out the punishment accordingly.

--
AG

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by **Txl** » Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:55:03

Thanks for your input, maybe it would be a good thing to have ALWAYS the
same steward so his "reactions" could be "known" to the paddock..

In Truck Racing we have 1 FIA steward and 1 Technical delegate for ALL the
races, and this is the only good thing FIA has done for us, on top of this
they have been the same for over 5 years now so everybody knows them and
they know everybody and we can have a real "dialog"...

--
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> No - Charlie Whiting is not one of the stewards involved - as far as I
> *recall* he is the FIA Safety and Technical delegate - he makes the calls
> for safety cars/red flags etc., but is not responsible for driving
> penalties. That's the job of a panel of stewards from 3 or 4 racing
> associations around the world, and used to be different every race. They
> decide if any driving or rule breach is dangerous/advantageous, and deal
> out the punishment accordingly.

> --
> AG

> Remove removes from address to remove anti-spam measures.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Never for me the lowered banner, never the last endeavour!
> (Damon Hill - 16th June 1999)

by **Eldre** » Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:47:30

writes:

Well, the same speculation was there when MS was catching Heidfeld... So
that's at least TWO cars that MS doesn't have to work hard to pass - 3
including his teammate...<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
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Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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by **Eldre** » Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:47:29

writes:

What would the engine have to do with TRACTION??? WTF was the engineer talking
about?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
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Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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by **Txl** » Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:24:26

well he wanted to make the driver sure it was not an engine problem or the
traction control, and immediatly JB replied it was not the engine,
apparently it was a suspension problem so the RR wheel was touching the
ground from time to time, and the problem with these traction control and
electronic diffs they have now is that if one of your rear wheel is "not
working" then the system slows down the left wheel also to prevent spinning,
but I'm quite sure that Mansell in his good old days would have disconnected
the system and maybe he could have blocked MS long enough...

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> writes:

> >JB "I had no traction on the left handers for the 2 last laps"
> >Engineer "We saw nothing on the engine side"
> >JB "It was not the engine, maybe transmission or a slow puncture"
> >Engineer "Good drive anyway..."

> What would the engine have to do with TRACTION??? WTF was the engineer
talking
> about?

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank - under construction...

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Peter Ive** » Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:18:19

Just a bad officiating call? Oh, come on Tom, it wasn't a spur of the
moment thing. They had time to deliberate, watch the various camera
angles and footage over and over and way up how the contact was made and
if one or other of the drivers was more culpable than the other.
Despite all this, they still gave JPM that drive through. Not bad
officiating, criminal more like. How long have these officials been
involved in F1? 5 minutes?

<snip>
--
Peter Ives
Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email

by **jlohma** » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:26:34

championship...offline....with

I'm kind of the opposite, I've been a huge F1 fan, but am now starting to
watch some NASCAR races on TV. It does seems to me, NASCAR has a much better
grip on TV broadcasting. It does seem strange that each F1 race has it's own
TV crew, thus mixed results on the broadcast. I have to agree that was one
of the worst F1 broadcast I've seen, right up there with last years USA GP
broadcast.

advertising

I think every car does have a camera in F1, I could be wrong about that, but
I thought the feed from the car was limited by the FIA. Something about the
"free" broadcast only have priveledges to certain in car cams. I could be
wrong, someone will clairify if I am, I'm sure.

Well, the engine idea might save some money, I don't know. But the rule of
if you blow an engine any time during the weekend you have to start 10
places back on the grid sounds pretty interesting, we might have some more
eventful races because of that.

Well, I don't think it's Ferrari complaining about the cost, honestly. The
salary cap thing would not make that much difference in F1. There are only a
few top teams, and if your a top driver, you don't want to drive for
Minardi. Williams is known for not paying outrageous salaries for their
drivers, and they are doing ok.

by **Txl** » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:46:45

They don't have a different cast for each GP, it's just the director which
is different, the camera people are the same, but if the director sucks the
cameramen cannot do much about it

On the "expensive" digital feed you get ALL in car cams, on the "free"
international signal you get 2 teams or 4 different cars i think, can
someone plese confirm this ?

It's too hard to overtake people in F1 nowadays, unless you are JPM or
MS...or Prost in the good old days in Spa (started from the pits finished
2nd 3 seconds behind the winner)

True, salary is just a way to "keep" the driver and preventing him from
going over to the team with the "better" car...

by **Heckler 2oo** » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:20:47

Williams is also known for dumping a driver after he's won the world
championship... I think Frank Williams was just trying to say, the car won
it, and we can do it with any driver.

I haven't heard much about FW apart from his health has supposed to have
taken a turn for the worse.

Heckler

by **Rafe McAuliff** » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:48:45

The in car cams (and the feed from them) are all owned by Bernie's
broadcasting co. Any in car stuff you see on free to air has to be
purchased from Bernie, outside of the existing agreement. So you
really have to have a generous network that is willing to spend extra
on in car footage. Not sure about any limits as per "2 teams or 4
cars" but it may well be right. We always seem to get only one or two
cars with on board footage.

Also, the closed circuit coverage within the track (on superscreens)
has a free range on the on board stuff, presumably because it's not
covered by the concorde agreement I guess.

Rafe Mc

by **ayemdeefanREM..** » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:56:50

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:48:45 +1100, Rafe McAuliffe

>The in car cams (and the feed from them) are all owned by Bernie's
>broadcasting co. Any in car stuff you see on free to air has to be
>purchased from Bernie, outside of the existing agreement. So you
>really have to have a generous network that is willing to spend extra
>on in car footage. Not sure about any limits as per "2 teams or 4
>cars" but it may well be right. We always seem to get only one or two
>cars with on board footage.

Is this why we never get to see incar views from M Schumacher or J P
Montoya? Does it cost more to see incar from the better drivers?

I remember seeing the incar for Alex Yoon, and one of the commentators
said "Now we're onboard with Alex Yoon, the speeds will be a lot
slower" I thought that was hilarious. :)

by **Rafe McAuliff** » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:27:39

Dunno, but I wouldn't be surprised. I remember last year there was a
lot of footage of JPM at Indy which was awesome, a lot of opposite
lock involved too.

hehe, they'd probably be better off pointing the camera toward the guy
behind trying to find a way past :P

Rafe Mc

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:02:41

having incar of JPM at Indy is a natural, since he's known to American
audiences. A network might spend more to get that for a special race like a
home event, but overall, they will try to get one or two big names and one
or two low priced budget cameras.(that's just my unqualified guess btw)
dave henrie

by **Book** » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:50:05

The free to air telecast is covered by the local host of the race (complete
with local director.) The bernie vision is done with seperate cameras and a
standard director. At the Australian GP, we couldn't see the tv screen from
our marshal point because of Bernie's camera stand (track level out of T12.)
while the chanel nine (local producers) had thier camera in the usual high
up spot out side the circuit. The supervision screens around the track use
the Bernie feed until the FOCA guys go home ie whenever the F1's finish and
then use the local feed for the rest of the support catagories, as Aust has
4 days of supports with 5 different catagories.
Book

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