rec.autos.simulators

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

Maps

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Maps » Wed, 09 Dec 1998 04:00:00


Geeze... so then why did they give it a "70"?

That would be like doing a review of the game of Chess and giving it a
low score because it takes "hours and hours" to become proficient at!

There are more driving games than you can shake a stick at- go ahead,
get a stick and try it!

I haven't read the article, but going on what you say, PC gamer has
missed the boat here.

Fair enough. I love the sim, but let's face it- this was true. I had
to buy a Voodo2 board to run the thing, and the box completely mislead
me.

But regarding the "games" comment- I think that is the whole review in
a nutshell. PC Gamer reviews games, and doesn't like the fact that
auto simmers don't call their things games. I mean, I didn't see it
either, but do you think PC gamer gave Longbow this bad a review when
it came out? Longbow was no easier than GPL, and there really was no
mode that made things truly easy. It took hours and hours to figure
out the***pit and control the aircraft.

I think PC Gamer is predjudiced against Papy.

GPL is state-of-the art; I can't even use any of my other sims
anymore- even Papy's old ones. Suggesting that Papy is pompous is a
low-shot; they've made an amazing simulator, something that has now
made all other simulators obsolete in my book. And then PC Gamer
claims that it is mediocre because it doesn't make itself easy for the
masses. Does it pretend to? No. So how can it be criticized for that?
It is like criticizing Papy for *not* selling out for the potential
money it could have made as an arcade game like NFS.

PC Gamer is predjudiced against Papy, that is clear. PC Gamer wants
lowest common denominator games, and GPL wants to create real
simulations. One has to ask- is it m***(or even legal) to use Hill
or Clark's name and then give a menu selection to make them run slower
than they really did on these courses, or give you elective advantages
to beat them? That is what PC gamer wanted, sounds like.

And even all that aside-  how could GPL ever hope to compete with
arcade titles as an arcade game? Every detail of the game was given to
subtlety and precision. And given that there are probably 200 arcade
racers on the market, is there no room for one real, no-holes-barred
sim? They could spend the article criticizing the fact that the box
doesn't make it clear that a good indication of hardware was not
given, ... and perhaps even that it isn't clear enough to them on the
box that this is a simulation and not a game. And then give it a 95%.
But they simply have no grounds to give the sim a mediocre score;
better to give no score, because this score says nothing. The game is
a *zero* for someone looking for a game, and a *95%* for someone
looking for a sim. 70 says nothing.

So then I guess the review deserved something up in the high-90s.

It is ironic that the aspects of the sim that make it endlessly
appealing to simmers are the key issues PC Gamer lowers the rating
for.

My criticisms of the sim- it crashes and disconnects too much in
multiplayer mode. The setups saving/deleting system is (like NASCAR2)
too tedious. No dates associated with best times (I know we're
supposed to be racing 30 years ago, but you've got to think of
something- I can't tell when my best times were done. How about a
"time from present" number?), automatic saving of race details and
times in a default file (multiplayer always tosses me to the newspaper
before I get a good chance to review).

Oh, and of course, this is a program that requires special hardware.
That info must be included on the box. That was certainly a ***
surprise for me.

Zonk

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Zonk » Wed, 09 Dec 1998 04:00:00



>>Just got the January edition of PC Gamer (one of the most comprehensive, and
>>unbiased PC mag's on the market, IMO unlike the Ziff Davis rags that give
>>biased reviews of products that advertise in their rag...)

>>On page176 they review Grand Prix Legends, and on a scale from 0-100 it only
>>scored a 70.... Basically they trashed Sierra/Papyrus as saying the game is
>>virtually undriveable! They go on to say that it's a game only for serious
>>sim racers, and if your just looking for a fun game you can jump into and
>>race without hours and hours and hours of practice/training this one is
>>definitely not for you!

I have to salute PC Gamer here- and A vault, and all others who've judged it
on these grounds- GPL is a damn hard sim, and it's not for the quick thrill
seeking.

A valid measurement of any Game- sim, or otherwise has to be it's
accessability, as well as it's realism, and i think too many this has been the
beauty of stuff like GP2, which has worked on so many levels- from hard, to
easy, and enjoyed by so many people.

Rightly or wrongly, GPL doesn't have the scalable difficulty as well, and i
think is quite fairly scored on these accounts, for lack of accessability.

I don't think it really diminishes the scope or authenticity or realism of the
Sim by scoring it at 70- just questions it's accessability- and that's spot
on.

Z.

Jason Mond

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Jason Mond » Wed, 09 Dec 1998 04:00:00



> My criticisms of the sim- it crashes and disconnects too much in
> multiplayer mode.

Not with a cable modem (or more specifically <200ms pings) :-)

It does tell you the dates of your own fastest laps.
If your ALL-CARS screen shows Ferrari as the fastest car/lap,
switch to the Ferrari-Only screen -- there are your times/dates.

You can also export the ALL-CARS page, and the date is shown
on there as well.

It's the host exiting too soon.  When I'm hosting, I chat about cool
race instances to give you a chance to look over numbers and tell
the others that the paper is coming.
--------
Jason Monds
"My other car is a Ferrari"
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

c0ldfusi0

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by c0ldfusi0 » Wed, 09 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I plan on writing a longer article about how PC Gamer has their head up
their ass regarding racing simulations but for now this will have to do...

I got the new Next Generation today and there is a review of GPL.
It got a perfect score, 5 stars out of 5

A quote:
"Overall there aren't enough adjectives to describe how excellent this is.
If you're willing to make the investment it takes to become good, you'll be
rewarded with what is perhaps the most exciting and engaging racing game
we've ever had the priviledge to play."

Now with all this talk about how PCG is for younger gamers, I submit this as
evidence that just because your audience is younger, you don't have to write
a review about how a game is "too tough" etc.  It seems to me that Next Gen
seems targeted at an even YOUNGER audience than PCG and they didn't feel it
was necessary to warn people off.   They told interested people of potential
pitfalls but reviewed the game based on what they saw.

If T. L. MacDonald had spent some more time with the sim before returning to
Need For Speed or whatever, he may have "gotten it".  But he didn't.  He,
instead, obssessed over stupid issues like "why do I only have 2 views to
choose from?" What does he want to do? Drive from the tv1 view?  WTF?!  He
thinks the sim is hard NOW.  What about when he is trying to find an apex
from a different camera angle.   He even feels the need to mention that the
***pit obscures too much of the scenery.

With comments like this, I have to conclude that he (a) was in a bad mood
when he spent his half hour reviewing this simulation  (b)  was smoking
crack  (c) has never driven a car and doesn't plan too. (its too darn hard!)
(d) all of the above.

That being said, here is MY review:
GPL is the best driving/racing simulator I have even experienced.  Ever.  So
there.

J.


>On Mon, 07 Dec 1998 00:11:50 -0800, Grimfarrow

>>> What they said was right on the money.  The average gamer will
>>> not like this title.  I can think of few people I know personally, if
>>> any, to whom I would give it to for Christmas.

> And that is why products shouldn't be reviewed by writers who
>aren't intimately familiar with the level of realism the
>software's authors are trying to achieve.

>>> If you randomly picked100
>>> of PC Gamer's readers and let them play the game for a couple
>>> of hours, then had them rate it, I bet it would get some really high
ratings
>>> and some really, really low ratings from frustrated / bored
>>> users who never "got it".  I think 70% is a fair estimate of the
>>> average rating those randomly selected users would give.
>>> That is the true test of such a rating.  They are trying to predict
>>> how well their average reader would enjoy the sim.

>But they should "subdivide" those readers into specific likes and
>dislikes before trying to review it as if it's targeted market is
>something as broad as "any person who likes cars".

>I dare say I couldn't write a review of "Barbie's Fashion
>Designer CD", as I have no taste, yet 100% of it's "target"
>audience (pre-*** girls, I suppose) would probably give it rave
>reviews.

>A sim - or any game -(hell all products for that matter) should
>be only "rated" as it stands against any directly-competing
>product on the marketplace, past or present, and not on it's
>"mass appeal". If it is the best thing out there for it's
>targeted market, it'll have near 100% "mass appeal", but only for
>it's target.

> GPL raised the bar significantly higher as the new target for
>all other "racing sim" programmers out there to try and hit.

>Rating a simulation for it's mass appeal to the general ***
>public is akin to saying a shit-barge SUV like an Explorer is
>somehow "better" than a  Porsche 911 because "it has a bigger
>trunk and it rides smoother" and validating the comparison by
>saying "well, they both have 4 tires and an engine". Not even a
>fair comparison.

> Auto magazines (and there's damned few of them that I like) do
>better than so-called "***" mags. in at least trying to only
>compare apples only with other apples.

> In reviewing anything which calls itself a "simulation", there
>should be only one criteria: Is this closer to "real" than any
>other "simulation" on the market? Yes or no. "Hard to drive"
>isn't a criteria for being "good", it's merely a by-product of
>trying to be "real".

>>But you're forgetting a lot with that assumption.  How about all
>>the positive things that GPL brought forth, like the physics
>>and the atmosphere of the game?  The article spent so
>>much time whining about the difficulty that I really don't
>>even see it as a review.  Sorry, but in CGW, in which
>>GPL got 4 stars out of 5, Gordon Gobles credited GPL
>>where it's due, yet also chatised it for being too
>>difficult and inaccessible.  That, IMO, is a much, much
>>better review.

> True, but still the "difficulty" shouldn't enter into the actual
>scoring of the product, since it's trying to emulate something
>that obviously isn't easy in real life. "Difficulty" should be
>the side-bar article, and they should always balance that with
>the fact that despite the difficulty, it pays off *immensely* in
>the satisfaction you get when you know you just cut that
>damn-near perfect lap. :)

> Regards,

>Doc Wynne
>Technical Support & Network Services
>Support Engineering/dickson.net
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>--
>Never a late apex, never a dull moment.

Tim Cabl

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Tim Cabl » Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:00:00



Lamer. I do respect some of the stuff that they do, but in the past they
were not the most reliable source of information.

Peter Gag

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Peter Gag » Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:00:00



> A valid measurement of any Game- sim, or otherwise has to be it's
> accessability, as well as it's realism, and i think too many this
> has been the beauty of stuff like GP2, which has worked on so many
> levels- from hard, to easy, and enjoyed by so many people.

> Rightly or wrongly, GPL doesn't have the scalable difficulty as
> well, and i think is quite fairly scored on these accounts, for
> lack of accessability.

I Have to disagree here, I think GPL has plenty to offer the new sim
racer, or the arcade racer, or even the "never driven a computer car
before sir" racer?

A friend of mine was visiting a few weeks ago, (building a new wall
in my drive) but as it was raining (I'm in the UK!!!) he had to stop
work for most of the afternoon. He asked if he could have a go on
this *game* I'de been raving about all day (GPL).

I hooked up my two pc lan in my study and loaded up GPL multiplayer,
and set him up with an Eagle (trainer) on auto braking, auto throttle
and auto gear changes, we drove a few laps at Monza.

After those first couple of laps he asked me to turn off the auto
throttle & brakes, leaving auto gears on. We had a few more laps, and
then we spent about two hours racing each other, he loved the sim,
and had a blast of an afternoon, and got the hang of the car after a
few laps, and even learnt the circuit well by the end of the
afternoon.

And this is a guy who doesn't own a pc (or a console) and who's only
driving experience is in a real car, or a trip to the seaside arcades
about once a year!!!

There are plenty of options in GPL to make it a *LOT* easier for the
novice, so to say it has to be marked down in reviews because it is
too difficult is a nonsence.

*Peter*   #:-)

Maps

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Maps » Sun, 13 Dec 1998 04:00:00





>> A valid measurement of any Game- sim, or otherwise has to be it's
>> accessability, as well as it's realism, and i think too many this
>> has been the beauty of stuff like GP2, which has worked on so many
>> levels- from hard, to easy, and enjoyed by so many people.

Sometimes I put GP2 in, just for memories... then I see those menus,
those endless menus and their pop-up boxes... and I generally quit.
And besides, I need the damn CD inserted- that is always a pain, and
games that require that tend to get forgotten fairly quickly.

I actually find GPL to be more "user friendly", from the point of view
of getting me in and out of races smoothly.

Well, one can indeed scale the racers- but not from within the sim.

In defense of the sim, I raise the point again in this post- is it
morally right or even legally proper to be able to make acurately
simulated racers from history race worse laps that they really did so
you can beat them? The realism of this sim is so intense that IMO it
starts to seem like an issue.

Anyway, this sim has plenty of helps- no damage models, braking help,
accelleration help. I don't see why it would need any more.

The one problem I see is that with a full grid (when you have enough
cars to allow a novice to compete), often one's computer is not
powerful enough to handle it. But with only 5 racers... you are going
head to head with the great of history, and hell if I can ever really
beat Clark or Hill or so forth.

But that is OK with me! I'd just assume keep my respect for the greats
than pretend I am stomping all over them.

I think ICR was tougher on me when I started it- I couldn't beat
anybody at 80% or whatever it was!

Well, one thing about this sim is that the model is more similar to
driving a regular car than any sim I've ever used- of course, you
don't usually drive a car at it's limits in real life. But the point
is, if you know how to drive, some of the skills do transfer. As
opposed to, say, GP2 or CPR, which i feel is an *** sort of
driving- more akin to being on a rail than anything I do in a real
car.


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