rec.autos.simulators

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

Marc Collin

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Marc Collin » Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:00:00

At least they are explaining the rationale for the lower score...and theirs
is and will be the opinion of most people--check out the sales figures for
GPL if you need a reality check.  For me, all of the "negatives" they cite
are exactly the reasons I bought and enjoy GPL...but then like most of us
here on r.a.s., I am not the average consumer for racing games.

Marc.


>Just got the January edition of PC Gamer (one of the most comprehensive,
and
>unbiased PC mag's on the market, IMO unlike the Ziff Davis rags that give
>biased reviews of products that advertise in their rag...)

>On page176 they review Grand Prix Legends, and on a scale from 0-100 it
only
>scored a 70.... Basically they trashed Sierra/Papyrus as saying the game is
>virtually undriveable! They go on to say that it's a game only for serious
>sim racers, and if your just looking for a fun game you can jump into and
>race without hours and hours and hours of practice/training this one is
>definitely not for you!

>Here is a few lines from the review....

>->For reasons known only to Papyrus, its most recent games have also been
>lacking essential 3d hardware support,and at times you get the impression
>that it would bother them to even have their products called "games". The
>this is the company's first title with hardware support out of the box says
>volumes for its priorities, and the fact that Papyrus continues to make
>games that are maddeningly inaccessible for the average gamer says even
>more. <-

>and....

>->Being regarded as the greatest developer of racing sims seems to have
gone
>to Papyrus' collective head. They may indeed create the most amazing
physics
>models seen in any sim (ground or air). What they forgot to do was make a
>game that most people would want to, or even be able to, play! <-

>Ouch!!!!!

>The article goes on to point out the highs and lows of the game....

>Highs: Superb physics model. Strong driver AI.

>Lows: No true difficulty settings. Coupled with the over-modeled physics,
>this means a steep, steep learning curve.

>Overall score: 70

>BTW, They gave F1RS a score of a 90 or 92, I can't remember which, and ToCA
>got an 88, NFSIII also got a score of 88.

sbarbou

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by sbarbou » Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I do have to admit though that GPL would be ALOT more fun if it had
difficulty switches for AI and physics. It is almost impossible to
successfully complete one lap during race conditions in a GPL car. I just
don't have the time anymore to spend hours and hours practicing. Sometimes I
just like to hop in and race! It really should have come with more options
for difficulty

Micheal Smi

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Micheal Smi » Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:00:00


Your kidding right?

Mike

Prowl

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Prowl » Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:00:00


says...

PC Lamer is not unbiased at all.  In fact although I agree that most
magazines show some level of "adjustment" on occasion,PC Lamer has
constantly shown their inability to be trusted.

FACT: In 1996 the AVERAGE rating given to games by PC Lamer was in the
mid 80% range.  They seemed to love almost everything.

FACT: In 1997 after severe criticism from the public and other media, PC
Lamer decided they needed to lower this average.  However, they did this
not by giving more accurate ratings to the Big Publishers games, but by
including several patsy reviews in each issue.  These "added in" reviews
were almost always of games that were OVER 6 MONTHS OLD (and usually were
almost impossible to find by then in any store).  They pan a few titles
that came out six-nine months ago by some small publisher, and then go on
to review Big Publisher games that came out less than a month ago.

FACT: PC Lamer claims to only review "Finished Games" and yet is the only
magazine with the fine distinction of having printed REVIEWS (not pre-
views, but full fledged reviews) of TWO games that were never even
published.  They also have had reviews of games in print on the newsstand
the same week that a game in released.  This is particularly amazing
considering the two month delay in print media.  

They rated ACENDANCY at 93% (wouldn't have anything to do with the
reviewing publishing the strategy guide...no)

They gave Chessmaster 5000 a 90% in spite of the fact that the game was
so bug ridden as to make its entire database unusable.

I haven't read that magazine since last year when their cover proclaimed
"BIGEST ISSUE EVER!!!  444 PACKED PAGES"  Well t was try, there were 444
pages, of course 63% of those pages were FULL PAGE ADS, that left a
whopping 164 pages for everything else (including any ads that weren't
full page).  By the time you got done with table of contents, the "whats
on the CD" section, you ended up with a magazine that was many things,
like impossible to enjoy.

Oh god that magazine sucks.

Check out:

http://www.pathcom.com/~kenl/

<snip of yet another PC Lamer reviewers ineptitude>

--
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No charge for additional viewings
No records of what you watch
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Cheaper to own

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DIVX: You watch it, it watches you

DIVX: Its hard to beleive it, but Bill Gates has nothing to do with it!

Micheal Smi

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Micheal Smi » Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:00:00



Scary but true.  Everyone thinks they are skillful drivers and could
lay down a few fast laps if given the chance.  Humorous.

Mike

Ken Bear

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Ken Bear » Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:00:00



>>>On page176 they review Grand Prix Legends, and on a scale from 0-100 it
>only
>>>scored a 70.... Basically they trashed Sierra/Papyrus as saying the game
>is
>>>virtually undriveable! They go on to say that it's a game only for
serious
>>>sim racers, and if your just looking for a fun game you can jump into and
>>>race without hours and hours and hours of practice/training this one is
>>>definitely not for you!

>>I really disagree with this evaluation.  Yes its hard to drive but the
cars
>in
>>1967 WERE very hard to drive.  ...<snip>.......
>>Judging from this i think GPL is very accurate.

>They didn't say it wasn't accurate, they said it was virtually undriveable.
>What's the *major* difference between "virtually undriveable" and "very
hard
>to drive"?

>Furthermore, why is saying that it's a game only for serious sim racers
>considered negative?  That's exactly what it is.  In fact, it's not a GAME
>at all.  I am not suprised that pc GAMEr doesn't like it!  If they said it
>was a great game and really fun to drive, pretty soon a whole hoard of NFS3
>drivers who bought the sim on PC GAMER's recommendation would be in here
>***ing about how hard it is and that it is impossible to drive!  (And
>asking for patches to run cop cars and Diablos at Nurburgring) Instead of
>the fun and useful  and productive exchanges about GPL that take place in
>here, you would have brilliant  threads and dopey flame wars that start
>with:

>LameRZ,
>gRAnd pRiX LeggENdz f*cKiN SUCKS Suckahh!!!  If U kant driVe 300 miles peR
>Hour like NEEd foR SpeEd 3 thEN you do'NT no WhAtTs KEWL.  NfS3 is DA
BoMb!!
>itt's  PhAT!  iT RULEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> You should be happy they gave it a crappy score.

>daxe (always ready with a stupid, unpopular opinion)

You're probably right - and your 15 year old wArEz ROOLZ dude impression was
hilarious :-)

--
Ken

Go #43 and #44

"If I went 'round claiming I was Emperor because some
 moistened bink lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" - anonymous
peasant

volksy (at) geocities (dot) com
volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com

david kar

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by david kar » Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:00:00

hmmm . . .

that's Barbour, not Barber, folks . . .


>>> Just got the January edition of PC Gamer (one of the most comprehensive,
>and
>>> unbiased PC mag's on the market, IMO unlike the Ziff Davis rags that
give
>>> biased reviews of products that advertise in their rag...)

>I do have to admit though that GPL would be ALOT more fun if it had
>difficulty switches for AI and physics. It is almost impossible to
>successfully complete one lap during race conditions in a GPL car. I just
>don't have the time anymore to spend hours and hours practicing. Sometimes
I
>just like to hop in and race! It really should have come with more options
>for difficulty

XCR6

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by XCR6 » Tue, 08 Dec 1998 04:00:00

MS CART. Now theres one I'm glad I didnt buy, if its even remotely close to the
demo. I spent who knows how long downloading it, and deleted it after about two
laps. Didnt feel it was worth the HD space.

rob

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by rob » Tue, 08 Dec 1998 04:00:00

What they said was right on the money.  The average gamer will
not like this title.  I can think of few people I know personally, if
any, to whom I would give it to for Christmas.

If you randomly picked100
of PC Gamer's readers and let them play the game for a couple
of hours, then had them rate it, I bet it would get some really high ratings
and some really, really low ratings from frustrated / bored
users who never "got it".  I think 70% is a fair estimate of the
average rating those randomly selected users would give.
That is the true test of such a rating.  They are trying to predict
how well their average reader would enjoy the sim.

rob.


>Just got the January edition of PC Gamer (one of the most comprehensive,
and
>unbiased PC mag's on the market, IMO unlike the Ziff Davis rags that give
>biased reviews of products that advertise in their rag...)

>On page176 they review Grand Prix Legends, and on a scale from 0-100 it
only
>scored a 70.... Basically they trashed Sierra/Papyrus as saying the game is
>virtually undriveable! They go on to say that it's a game only for serious
>sim racers, and if your just looking for a fun game you can jump into and
>race without hours and hours and hours of practice/training this one is
>definitely not for you!

>Here is a few lines from the review....

>->For reasons known only to Papyrus, its most recent games have also been
>lacking essential 3d hardware support,and at times you get the impression
>that it would bother them to even have their products called "games". The
>this is the company's first title with hardware support out of the box says
>volumes for its priorities, and the fact that Papyrus continues to make
>games that are maddeningly inaccessible for the average gamer says even
>more. <-

>and....

>->Being regarded as the greatest developer of racing sims seems to have
gone
>to Papyrus' collective head. They may indeed create the most amazing
physics
>models seen in any sim (ground or air). What they forgot to do was make a
>game that most people would want to, or even be able to, play! <-

>Ouch!!!!!

>The article goes on to point out the highs and lows of the game....

>Highs: Superb physics model. Strong driver AI.

>Lows: No true difficulty settings. Coupled with the over-modeled physics,
>this means a steep, steep learning curve.

>Overall score: 70

>BTW, They gave F1RS a score of a 90 or 92, I can't remember which, and ToCA
>got an 88, NFSIII also got a score of 88.

Grimfarro

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Grimfarro » Tue, 08 Dec 1998 04:00:00


> What they said was right on the money.  The average gamer will
> not like this title.  I can think of few people I know personally, if
> any, to whom I would give it to for Christmas.

> If you randomly picked100
> of PC Gamer's readers and let them play the game for a couple
> of hours, then had them rate it, I bet it would get some really high ratings
> and some really, really low ratings from frustrated / bored
> users who never "got it".  I think 70% is a fair estimate of the
> average rating those randomly selected users would give.
> That is the true test of such a rating.  They are trying to predict
> how well their average reader would enjoy the sim.

> rob.

But you're forgetting a lot with that assumption.  How about all
the positive things that GPL brought forth, like the physics
and the atmosphere of the game?  The article spent so
much time whining about the difficulty that I really don't
even see it as a review.  Sorry, but in CGW, in which
GPL got 4 stars out of 5, Gordon Gobles credited GPL
where it's due, yet also chatised it for being too
difficult and inaccessible.  That, IMO, is a much, much
better review.

Grimfarrow

Anssi Lehtin

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Anssi Lehtin » Tue, 08 Dec 1998 04:00:00



> Jay J wrote
> >Lows: No true difficulty settings. Coupled with the over-modeled physics,
> >this means a steep, steep learning curve.

> How can over-modeled physics be bad ??

What the hell _is_ over-modeling? I think the physics should be as true to
life as possible. However, I think you took the comment out of context
here. Basically, I just have to agree with PC Gamer's review. The game is
hard as hell, and frustrating to just about anyone at times. I don't see
why anyone should care what the arcade rags write.

--
Anssi Lehtinen

Jon Dento

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Jon Dento » Tue, 08 Dec 1998 04:00:00

What you say below is true to some extent but most of my friends aren't die
hard sim fans (In fact they generally enjoy the arcade side of things) but
most of them found playing GPL with a wheel and pedals a thoroughly
exhilarating experience.  They all crashed almost constantly but they found
that the enjoyment gained from getting it right far outweighed the
frustration of hurtling towards a hedge backwards!  Basically, most people I
know enjoy sim driving, not quite as much as the people that read this group
but all of them can recognise a good sim when they see one and most
intelligent people I meet have driven GPL, GP2 and ICR2 and found them to be
worth persevering with.  I think what PC Gamer should have stressed is that
GPL is not for kids, and going and buying it for your 6 year old for Xmas is
not really a good idea (I let my 7 and 10 year old cousins play GPL and they
just couldn't handle it!).  PC Gamer in the UK gave the sim a good review
but pointed out that it will take some perseverance to get the best out of
what is ultimately a very satisfying sim.  Sorry to go on so long.

Jon.


>What they said was right on the money.  The average gamer will
>not like this title.  I can think of few people I know personally, if
>any, to whom I would give it to for Christmas.

>If you randomly picked100
>of PC Gamer's readers and let them play the game for a couple
>of hours, then had them rate it, I bet it would get some really high
ratings
>and some really, really low ratings from frustrated / bored
>users who never "got it".  I think 70% is a fair estimate of the
>average rating those randomly selected users would give.
>That is the true test of such a rating.  They are trying to predict
>how well their average reader would enjoy the sim.

>rob.

Steve Ferguso

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Steve Ferguso » Tue, 08 Dec 1998 04:00:00

: ->For reasons known only to Papyrus, its most recent games have also been
: lacking essential 3d hardware support,and at times you get the impression
: that it would bother them to even have their products called "games". The
: this is the company's first title with hardware support out of the box says
: volumes for its priorities, and the fact that Papyrus continues to make
: games that are maddeningly inaccessible for the average gamer says even
: more. <-

While I agrew with their point about not making the game accessible to a
wider audience, they are hopelessly wrong with this point.  CART pre-dated
hardware acceleration, and when Rendition cards hit the scene (before
Voodoo even existed) Papyrus produced some very efficient code to support
it and released it as a free patch.  Nascar 2 was Rendition ready out of
the box (again, before 3D cards had wide-spread acceptance, and before
most software companies were writing direct 3D and glide titles - I think
Psygnosis's F1 was the first 3dfx game).  Their next title (GPL) is
rendition and 3dfx ready, with patches coming for other cards.  Exactly
what was this reviewer expecting?  Support for a card which didn't yet
exist?  What was this guy smoking?

Stephen

David Ewin

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by David Ewin » Tue, 08 Dec 1998 04:00:00


> I do have to admit though that GPL would be ALOT more fun if it had
> difficulty switches for AI and physics. It is almost impossible to
> successfully complete one lap during race conditions in a GPL car.

I agree that Papyrus should have made the game more configurable in
terms of difficulty settings, race lengths, AI strength, etc., but to
say that it is "almost impossible to successfully complete one lap
during race conditions ..." is a bit strong.  I've completed 30
consecutive laps at Monza in an online race with no real mistakes at a
moderate clip (1:32's) in a Lotus (a hard to handle car), and believe
me, I'm a mediocre driver, at best.

It does take a bit of time to learn what these cars demand (lift while
shifting, get the car settled before turning in, easy on the
accelerator, etc.).  And of course, you have to learn the track you're
on to know what to do when, but that's true of all racing sims/games on
road courses.

Also, anybody who is is having a hard time controlling the car should
download Alison's excellent Coventry setups.  The car handles
beautifully on all the tracks I've tried (well, a bit too much
understeer at Monaco for my tastes, but that's another story). I think
you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Of course, it takes a HUGE amount of time to get as good as the top GPL
racers, but that's true of any sport/hobby/activity worth pursuing.

Dave Ewing

Dave Ewing

Doc Wyn

PC Gamer Review of GPL, Rather unkind scores!

by Doc Wyn » Wed, 09 Dec 1998 04:00:00

On Mon, 07 Dec 1998 00:11:50 -0800, Grimfarrow


>> What they said was right on the money.  The average gamer will
>> not like this title.  I can think of few people I know personally, if
>> any, to whom I would give it to for Christmas.

 And that is why products shouldn't be reviewed by writers who
aren't intimately familiar with the level of realism the
software's authors are trying to achieve.

But they should "subdivide" those readers into specific likes and
dislikes before trying to review it as if it's targeted market is
something as broad as "any person who likes cars".

I dare say I couldn't write a review of "Barbie's Fashion
Designer CD", as I have no taste, yet 100% of it's "target"
audience (pre-*** girls, I suppose) would probably give it rave
reviews.

A sim - or any game -(hell all products for that matter) should
be only "rated" as it stands against any directly-competing
product on the marketplace, past or present, and not on it's
"mass appeal". If it is the best thing out there for it's
targeted market, it'll have near 100% "mass appeal", but only for
it's target.

 GPL raised the bar significantly higher as the new target for
all other "racing sim" programmers out there to try and hit.

Rating a simulation for it's mass appeal to the general ***
public is akin to saying a shit-barge SUV like an Explorer is
somehow "better" than a  Porsche 911 because "it has a bigger
trunk and it rides smoother" and validating the comparison by
saying "well, they both have 4 tires and an engine". Not even a
fair comparison.

 Auto magazines (and there's damned few of them that I like) do
better than so-called "***" mags. in at least trying to only
compare apples only with other apples.

 In reviewing anything which calls itself a "simulation", there
should be only one criteria: Is this closer to "real" than any
other "simulation" on the market? Yes or no. "Hard to drive"
isn't a criteria for being "good", it's merely a by-product of
trying to be "real".

 True, but still the "difficulty" shouldn't enter into the actual
scoring of the product, since it's trying to emulate something
that obviously isn't easy in real life. "Difficulty" should be
the side-bar article, and they should always balance that with
the fact that despite the difficulty, it pays off *immensely* in
the satisfaction you get when you know you just cut that
damn-near perfect lap. :)

 Regards,

Doc Wynne
Technical Support & Network Services
Support Engineering/dickson.net
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
Never a late apex, never a dull moment.                                                                                                                                                                                                                        


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