rec.autos.simulators

ALL:

To those who have NASCAR for the Playstation PLEASE give me ALL the info
on the Tracks, Cars, etc.... THANKS!!

Tom Wardell
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~cwardell/RaceFans.html

Tom:

You'll find a full objective  review (2 pages) if you Netscape  to
here:

WWW.Vidgames.Com
WWW.Sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii

Randy Borl is the author.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MP
Scurvydog #00  Simpson-Cowlings Motorsports
http://www.netcom.com/~svydog/scms/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This gentlemen nails it pretty good.

Barry Clay

That's an out and out lie.  With no other cars on the track the frame rate
is more than 20 fps.  The only time it ever drops under 10 fps is when you
spin.  If you don't like the game, fine, but don't come on here and print
such garbage when you know its not true.

over to a console system, it handles textured graphics at a amazing
framerate.

As long as you don't mind the fact that there's no room on the cartridge
to STORE those textures!  Oh and kiss the digital sound goodbye too.

Randy

| >>
| >> ALL:
| >>
| >> To those who have NASCAR for the Playstation PLEASE give me ALL the info
| >> on the Tracks, Cars, etc.... THANKS!!
| >>
| >> Tom Wardell
| >> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2171/index.html
| >> http://www.monmouth.com/~cwardell/RaceFans.html

| >it is very bad!!!!  Do not buy it!!!  The frame rate is about 5-10 with
| >no other cars on the screen and <5 with other cars.  It is not playable!

This is not  what  I have heard from any sources around here, and is a
bit alarming to hear, since I am just about to go ahead and buy it.
Did you actually buy/rent a copy for your PSX? Or did you just buy a
N64? ;)

| They should of waited for the Nintendo 64 to come out to port Nascar
| over to a console system, it handles textured graphics at a amazing
| framerate.

The magazines I've read tend to agree that it will be at least a year
before you see many major titles ported over, assuming cartridge
restraints aren't an issue.

Don't get me wrong, the N64 is a *fantastic*, even unbelievable
console, and I will probably buy one a year or two from now if it ever
turns out that people can port major PC stuff to it, given it's
cartridge restraints. And those restraints aren't just data storage-
there's also the fact that each cart costs $30 to manufacture, as
opposed to $3 for a cd-rom, which makes it a close call for many
companies as to whether or not they can risk not paying expenses by a)
figuring out how to program the thing, and b)taking the time to port
their products over.

If NASCAR is slow on PSX like you say, it must be that Sierra didn't
optimize the code well. Psygnosis' F1 has proven that PSX is fast-
damn fast- when you skip the cookie-cutter libraries and do most of
the programming in assembly code. It has taken a full year for
programmers to start to approach the potential horsepower out of the
platform, and only a few titles have it now. One of Playstation's
advantages over the competition was that it always has been extremely
programmer-friendly, but also, this has tended to make for a lot of
titles that we're just "punched out", not well optimized at all. I am
very hopeful than in the next year or two it takes for N64 to make
it/not make it through it's break-in, we'll have lots more PSX titles
using the platform's fullest potential. Certainly the standards have
been raised immeasurably by F1.

: | >>
: | >> ALL:
: | >>
: | >> To those who have NASCAR for the Playstation PLEASE give me ALL the info
: | >> on the Tracks, Cars, etc.... THANKS!!
: | >>
: | >> Tom Wardell
: | >> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
: | >> http://www.racesimcentral.net/~cwardell/RaceFans.html

: | >it is very bad!!!!  Do not buy it!!!  The frame rate is about 5-10 with
: | >no other cars on the screen and <5 with other cars.  It is not playable!

: This is not  what  I have heard from any sources around here, and is a
: bit alarming to hear, since I am just about to go ahead and buy it.
: Did you actually buy/rent a copy for your PSX? Or did you just buy a
: N64? ;)

: | They should of waited for the Nintendo 64 to come out to port Nascar
: | over to a console system, it handles textured graphics at a amazing
: | framerate.

: The magazines I've read tend to agree that it will be at least a year
: before you see many major titles ported over, assuming cartridge
: restraints aren't an issue.

: Don't get me wrong, the N64 is a *fantastic*, even unbelievable
: console, and I will probably buy one a year or two from now if it ever
: turns out that people can port major PC stuff to it, given it's
: cartridge restraints. And those restraints aren't just data storage-
: there's also the fact that each cart costs $30 to manufacture, as
: opposed to $3 for a cd-rom, which makes it a close call for many
: companies as to whether or not they can risk not paying expenses by a)
: figuring out how to program the thing, and b)taking the time to port
: their products over.

: If NASCAR is slow on PSX like you say, it must be that Sierra didn't
: optimize the code well. Psygnosis' F1 has proven that PSX is fast-
: damn fast- when you skip the cookie-cutter libraries and do most of
: the programming in assembly code. It has taken a full year for
: programmers to start to approach the potential horsepower out of the
: platform, and only a few titles have it now. One of Playstation's
: advantages over the competition was that it always has been extremely
: programmer-friendly, but also, this has tended to make for a lot of
: titles that we're just "punched out", not well optimized at all. I am
: very hopeful than in the next year or two it takes for N64 to make
: it/not make it through it's break-in, we'll have lots more PSX titles
: using the platform's fullest potential. Certainly the standards have
: been raised immeasurably by F1.

I disagree with everyones statements regarding this. I have been
faithfully and painfully playing Nascar on my 486dx66 for over a year now
and I find the frame rates on the psx are far superior. I couldn't dream
of getting that kind of frame rate on the 486 with all the graphics turned
on. As far as the rates dropping when theres an accident, I'm VERY used to
it and I expected this to happen on the PSX version. I also find that the
car settings Ive worked on for the last 2 years on the pc version work
reasonably well on the psx version, if not, they are still better than the
default car settings in the game, and will give me something to work with.

The AI drivers seem at least as competent, if not more competent than in
the pc version.  Also the design of the tracks seem better, using more
than one groove on most of the tracks, as well as a MUCH better design of
the tri-oval in Taladega. Also the road courses seem much more drivable in
the PSX version - I was never able to be competitive on the road courses
in the pc version due to the low frame rates.

 One neat thing they placed
in the PSX version is
the "burn out" when you hit the gas from a stand still. It helps turn the
car around if you are facing the wrong way.  

Since it only cost me 100 bux for the PSX at toys R us (you trade in 10
sega games and get $100 credit) and the game cost only $40, its a far
better value than paying the $400-500 it would cost to upgrade my pc to a
decent *** machine. One of the main reasons I got a PSX is because I
heard Nascar and Formula 1 were coming out.

While the game isnt perfect, I think Papyrus did a good job putting a game
out on a platform they never worked with before.  I hope Nascar PSX sells
enough for Papyrus for them to keep developing games for it.

 I also have
Formula 1 for the PSX. While it is fun and the
frame rates outrageous, it still has an "arcade racer" type feel to it.

mike2112

frame rates outrageous, it still has an "arcade racer" type feel to it.>>

While I agree with many of the things you said about NASCAR, I think your
NASCAR background is hurting you here.  Formula 1 has a VERY good feel to
it.  Try driving it with a Mad Catz wheel.  See if you can beat my
1:30.404 Imola time.  If you do, you will see just how unarcade like the
behavior of the car is when you're pushing it at the very limit of
adhesion!

Randy

[I've edited out someone else's complaints about framerates in NASCAR
for PSX]

| I disagree with everyones statements regarding this. I have been
| faithfully and painfully playing Nascar on my 486dx66 for over a year now
| and I find the frame rates on the psx are far superior.

Agreed. Although I never had NASCAR on my 486dx4100, I have ICR2,
ICR1, GP2 (among others), and I'd say the smoothness of NASCAR on the
PSX blows all of them away as compared to my PC.

| I couldn't dream
| of getting that kind of frame rate on the 486 with all the graphics turned
| on. As far as the rates dropping when theres an accident, I'm VERY used to
| it and I expected this to happen on the PSX version. I also find that the
| car settings Ive worked on for the last 2 years on the pc version work
| reasonably well on the psx version, if not, they are still better than the
| default car settings in the game, and will give me something to work with.

Agreed. I think there was just one guy with some polar views about
NASCAR on PS. Did he actually play it?  He's the only one with the
heavy complaints. I love it, absolutely.

| The AI drivers seem at least as competent, if not more competent than in
| the pc version.  Also the design of the tracks seem better, using more
| than one groove on most of the tracks, as well as a MUCH better design of
| the tri-oval in Taladega. Also the road courses seem much more drivable in
| the PSX version - I was never able to be competitive on the road courses
| in the pc version due to the low frame rates.

The "racing line" is very neatly and realistically shaded into each
track, unlike the ICR2 "black marks" technique. I assume NASCAR on PC,
being older,  also had the black mark technique. I notice that the
NASCAR2 demo had the new form of realistic race groove, like on the
PSX. It seems like NASCAR on PSX is a hybrid between NASCAR and the
upcoming NASCAR2. Whatever, it is great.

|  One neat thing they placed
| in the PSX version is
| the "burn out" when you hit the gas from a stand still. It helps turn the
| car around if you are facing the wrong way.  

You can *hear* it, too, which is nice. The sounds in general in
PSX-NASCAR are great.

| Since it only cost me 100 bux for the PSX at toys R us (you trade in 10
| sega games and get $100 credit) and the game cost only $40, its a far
| better value than paying the $400-500 it would cost to upgrade my pc to a
| decent *** machine. One of the main reasons I got a PSX is because I
| heard Nascar and Formula 1 were coming out.

That was my reason too. So far, they are all I can find that I want to
buy, too. I would just flip if GP2 ever came out for it!  And if
Papyrus every breaks their promise never to work on Indycar again, I
would run to the store to buy ICR for the playstation. *Run*

| While the game isnt perfect, I think Papyrus did a good job putting a game
| out on a platform they never worked with before.  I hope Nascar PSX sells
| enough for Papyrus for them to keep developing games for it.

ditto

|  I also have
| Formula 1 for the PSX. While it is fun and the
| frame rates outrageous, it still has an "arcade racer" type feel to it.

Well, I disagree here. F-1 is a masterpiece. Yes, it has some flaws,
but so does every other sim, we just get used to them and if good, we
forgive and forget most of them. I assure you, if you work at F1 hard
enough, you find it is a damn good sim. Remember, an F1 team was
consulted throughout the making of the program. And F1 people take
their sport, uh, shall we say, *very* seriously...

I think part of your feeling about F1 might stem from the fact that it
is a polar opposite from a Papyrus sim. Papyrus seems to almost take
pride in their "anti-frill" quality, emphaiszing the notion of "sim"
as a dry and serious thing. It is sort of the "Papyrus aesthetic."
Psygnosis/Bizarre, OTOH, comes from the flashy arcade angle. But F1 is
a sim, I think they took the actual car physics  and course modelling
(if not the AI) very seriously. Of course, the crashes are terrible.
But in a way, that is because it really is a race sim, and in real
life, a crash is sort of the end of the open-wheel race experience,
not a part of the race. And if you've ever seen any of their
Destruction Derby series, you *know* they know how to make a good
crash! It is sort of ironic that this is exactly what they skipped in
their "serious sim." They ought to do a NASCAR sim- imagine!?

I bought a Playstation for F1, I was happy with the decision. And now
with NASCAR also out, I am *very* happy with my decision. They are a
great complement to each other, and in fact, for the time being the PC
can't compete with the new things they have to offer to an racing sim
afficianado. Now we just need ICR and GP2.

buy, too. I would just flip if GP2 ever came out for it!  And if
Papyrus every breaks their promise never to work on Indycar again, I
would run to the store to buy ICR for the playstation. *Run*>>

Get Formula One for the Playstation.  Its not the deep simulator that
NASCAR or GP2 is, however the tracks are exactly correct in every detail,
compared to the flawed and outdated GP2 tracks.  Also, you get Murray
Walker's commentary, TV-style presentation and cars that actually have
different performances (you can drive a Footwork in GP2 and have the same
capability as the Williams -- unreal).

Don't get me wrong -- I love GP2 and I'm not trying to start anything with
this post -- merely that in some areas where GP2 falls flat, Formula One
shines brilliantly, and visa vesa.

Randy

| >>That was my reason too. So far, they are all I can find that I want to
| buy, too. I would just flip if GP2 ever came out for it!  And if
| Papyrus every breaks their promise never to work on Indycar again, I
| would run to the store to buy ICR for the playstation. *Run*>>

| Get Formula One for the Playstation.  Its not the deep simulator that
| NASCAR or GP2 is, however the tracks are exactly correct in every detail,
| compared to the flawed and outdated GP2 tracks.  Also, you get Murray
| Walker's commentary, TV-style presentation and cars that actually have
| different performances (you can drive a Footwork in GP2 and have the same
| capability as the Williams -- unreal).

Actually, I bought the playstation because of F1 by Psygnosis! You are
absolutely right about it. I am very happy about my purchase, and now
that NASCAR is also out, I am positively thrilled. I hope a lot of
other PC sim-ers consider the Playstation too. Not only is it a
cheaper alternative (by about %1000)  to a new PC,  in F1 and even
this enhanced NASCAR for PS, there simply are things you can't find on
PC presently.

| Don't get me wrong -- I love GP2 and I'm not trying to start anything with
| this post -- merely that in some areas where GP2 falls flat, Formula One
| shines brilliantly, and visa vesa.

I agree completely. I love GP2. But to be honest, I haven't gotten
back in to it since getting Psygnosis' version. Of course, part of
that is that I have an aged 486dx4-100mhz PC, and GP2 just needs more
speed. But secondly, Psygnosis' really does have, as a "newer
generation product", some advancements over GP2. ANd while I'd also
say GP2 is the "deeper sim"(at least in terms of setup tweaking), you
also note correctly that Psygnosis' version actually has differences
between the different team's cars, unlike GP2. BTW, you get fantastic
rain, too, for all those GP2ers griping about rain.

In short, they are very different approaches to doing the same things,
and a simm-er really needs both.