rec.autos.simulators

by **David G Fishe** » Tue, 15 May 2001 10:25:18

Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races. His
attitude is childish. This was the first race he even qualified higher than
R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place position
was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just Schumacher, and
then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to get by.

"I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by me,
then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael so you've got to
let me by.'"

BMW Motorsport director Gerhard Berger, who has been very impressed by the
Williams driver so far this season, allowed his disappointment to show.

"We all know well that Montoya doesn't really make room (for others). You
only come out the winner from something like that if overall you remain in
the lead," he said.

by **Greg Campbel** » Tue, 15 May 2001 11:42:27

> Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races. His
> attitude is childish.

Sorry, I don't see it.

As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to
countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who
had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS
had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM had
to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit of
a stretch....

Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his
position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari
engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight.

I've heard from several sources that the Michelin tires fade badly afer
a few laps, slide around for a while, then come back to full power. I
believe that Juan was trying to ride out the temporary tire performance
loss without losing his lead. It's not as if he had a permanent problem
and was holding up half the field out of spite. FWIW, I don't see
anything wrong with his approach.

Greg

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by **Ian** » Tue, 15 May 2001 14:25:38

On Sun, 13 May 2001 19:42:27 -0700, Greg Campbell

>As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to
>countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who
>had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS
>had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM had
>to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit of
>a stretch....

Hmmm, so if MS had taken a normal line, Juan would still have gone
deep into the corner? Methinks not. MS pushed him into making that
mistake. He should have backed himself to take MS again when his
tyres 'came back'. As it turned out, his pace increased a few laps
later when the Michelins started working again. He could have been in
second or third and still a contender for a win. It was a very
short-sighted move in my opinion.

Why should he? He might be in line to replace Barrichelo in a year or
2. He probably won't want to***of his potential bosses. Also, the
Sauber's are notorious for getting out of any Ferrari coming through.

True, that was definately the plan, and it was a good one. However,
he had lost the corner. The overhead (helicopter) cam clearly should
MS had put enough of the car in front to claim the corner. MS braked
very late into the bend and even if JM had brake a little later than
normal, MS was probably still going to pass him. By going deep into
the brake zone, he was really pushing things too far.

Just my opinion. For the record, I am a long-time MS fan and enjoyed
JPM in the few CART races I saw him in. I think he is the best thing
to hit F1 in a long time and I want to see him winning races and
competing hard and fair for championships. I was saddened by his
problems this year (notably Verstappen at Brazil), but I still see a
brilliant rookie year ahead in F1.

Regards all,
Ian

by **Naim Gur** » Tue, 15 May 2001 15:37:02

I think it's pretty obvious what was going on. JP's tires were shot and he
was holding everyone up. MS had a go at him round the outside and in defence
JP breaked too late couldn't get round and went wide.

If he'd let MS past he'd have been second and not seventh. Simple. He'll
learn, F1 is not so forgiving.

AND this is off topic.

Jay

> > Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races. His
> > attitude is childish.

> Sorry, I don't see it.

> > This was the first race he even qualified higher than
> > R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place
position
> > was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just Schumacher,
and
> > then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to get
by.

> As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to
> countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who
> had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS
> had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM had
> to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit of
> a stretch....

> > "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by me,

then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael

- Show quoted text -

by **Joeri Co** » Tue, 15 May 2001 15:40:31

<SNIP>

Why should he?!?!!? Because he's racing!!! My God, if these guys don't race,
what are teams paying them for? To drive around selling donuts?
---
Joeri J. Cox

European Racing League GM - http://www.racesimcentral.net/
502 Racing co-founder - http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Eldre** » Wed, 16 May 2001 03:45:55

><SNIP>

>> >Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his
>> >position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari
>> >engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight.
>> Why should he? He might be in line to replace Barrichelo in a year or
>> 2. He probably won't want to***of his potential bosses. Also, the
>> Sauber's are notorious for getting out of any Ferrari coming through.

><SNIP>

>Why should he?!?!!? Because he's racing!!! My God, if these guys don't race,
>what are teams paying them for? To drive around selling donuts?
>---

Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as possible.
To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them in a
year is absurd...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Uncle Feste** » Wed, 16 May 2001 12:06:31

> >Why should he?!?!!? Because he's racing!!! My God, if these guys don't race,
> >what are teams paying them for? To drive around selling donuts?
> >---

> Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as possible.
> To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them in a
> year is absurd...

Geeezz. It all sounds so... so... EUROPEAN! :-)

--

Fester

by **Leo Gre** » Wed, 16 May 2001 12:36:03

<snip>

Don't forget that this is F1 we're talking about here. Politics always has
and always will be a major part of F1. Afterall, it wouldn't be the biggest
soap opera on wheels with out it! :-)

Leo

by **Ian** » Wed, 16 May 2001 13:06:06

><snip>
>>Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as possible.
>>To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them in a
>>year is absurd...

>>Eldred

>Don't forget that this is F1 we're talking about here. Politics always has
>and always will be a major part of F1. Afterall, it wouldn't be the biggest
>soap opera on wheels with out it! :-)

>Leo

Hi Eldred,

Calm down. I was just pointing out another variable in the equation.
Who knows what Ferarri put into the contract when they license their
engines (Sauber and Prost). Besides, Peter Sauber and Alain Prost are
probably have much more close to Ferrari than say BAR or Maclaren.
Sometimes these things count for something when their car is being
lapped. As for fighting for position, obviously they can't just throw
away points and let cars through.

As for Raikkonin moving to Ferarri, I had my tongue firmly in cheek.
However I do believe that Raikkonin probably has had an informal chat
with Ferarri(and the other top teams), and wouldn't want to do
anything now that impacts on his future earnings. So I expect him to
race hard, but fair, and not make any stupid moves. That's what
happened on Sunday.

Unfortunately, the final motivator is *money*. Michael basically said
that at the extended press conference. It brought an ugly side of F1
into sharp focus and I think some of the conspiracies theories will be
rearing their heads again. If you haven't seen the interviews &
answers to public questions goto www.alphaf1.com and follow the
articles of the press conference.

Regards,
Ian

That's my view anyway.

by **Thom j** » Wed, 16 May 2001 13:22:08

Dont you think all "big race professional leagues" are politics & money?

| Don't forget that this is F1 we're talking about here. Politics always
has
| and always will be a major part of F1. Afterall, it wouldn't be the
biggest
| soap opera on wheels with out it! :-)
| Leo

by **Mike Whit** » Wed, 16 May 2001 14:55:14

If as you say his tires were shot, and he was holding "everyone" up, and he
was in the frame of mind to let someone pass rather than hold them up as you
suggest, wouldn't he let "everyone" pass?

That would leave him in sixth or seventh so there really wasn't a net
difference. However his chance of letting just MS pass were somewhere near
slim and none.

> I think it's pretty obvious what was going on. JP's tires were shot and he
> was holding everyone up. MS had a go at him round the outside and in
defence
> JP breaked too late couldn't get round and went wide.

> If he'd let MS past he'd have been second and not seventh. Simple. He'll
> learn, F1 is not so forgiving.

> AND this is off topic.

> Jay

> > > Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races.
His
> > > attitude is childish.

> > Sorry, I don't see it.

> > > This was the first race he even qualified higher than
> > > R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place
> position
> > > was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just
Schumacher,
> and
> > > then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to
get
> by.

> > As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to
> > countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who
> > had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS
> > had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM had
> > to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit of
> > a stretch....

> > > "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by
me,
> then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael
> > > so you've got to let me by.'"

> > Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his
> > position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari
> > engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight.

> > I've heard from several sources that the Michelin tires fade badly afer
> > a few laps, slide around for a while, then come back to full power. I
> > believe that Juan was trying to ride out the temporary tire performance
> > loss without losing his lead. It's not as if he had a permanent problem
> > and was holding up half the field out of spite. FWIW, I don't see
> > anything wrong with his approach.

> > Greg

> > ============

> > Anti-Spam measures have been taken!
> > Remove duplicate letters to reply.

by **Naim Gur** » Wed, 16 May 2001 16:48:32

He was fighting to stay in front, that's what you do, but he was holding
everyone up, that'd caught up to him, I think that's obvious.

Frame of mind? The idea is to stay on the track, he couldn't make the
corner. He didn't make the corner! Wouldn't it be better to lose 1 place at
a time over 5 or so laps rather than 6 in one go! Not to mention saving
yourself from a trip across the gravel. That's not a "net" difference.

I don't have anything against JP just think he could have played it a bit
cooler. Jay

> If as you say his tires were shot, and he was holding "everyone" up, and
he
> was in the frame of mind to let someone pass rather than hold them up as
you
> suggest, wouldn't he let "everyone" pass?

> That would leave him in sixth or seventh so there really wasn't a net
> difference. However his chance of letting just MS pass were somewhere
near
> slim and none.

> > I think it's pretty obvious what was going on. JP's tires were shot and
he
> > was holding everyone up. MS had a go at him round the outside and in
> defence
> > JP breaked too late couldn't get round and went wide.

> > If he'd let MS past he'd have been second and not seventh. Simple. He'll
> > learn, F1 is not so forgiving.

> > AND this is off topic.

> > Jay

> > > > Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races.
> His
> > > > attitude is childish.

> > > Sorry, I don't see it.

> > > > This was the first race he even qualified higher than
> > > > R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place
> > position
> > > > was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just
> Schumacher,
> > and
> > > > then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to
> get
> > by.

> > > As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to
> > > countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who
> > > had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS
> > > had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM
had
> > > to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit
of
> > > a stretch....

> > > > "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by
> me,
> > then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael
> > > > so you've got to let me by.'"

> > > Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his
> > > position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari
> > > engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight.

> > > I've heard from several sources that the Michelin tires fade badly
afer
> > > a few laps, slide around for a while, then come back to full power. I
> > > believe that Juan was trying to ride out the temporary tire
performance
> > > loss without losing his lead. It's not as if he had a permanent
problem
> > > and was holding up half the field out of spite. FWIW, I don't see
> > > anything wrong with his approach.

> > > Greg

> > > ============

> > > Anti-Spam measures have been taken!
> > > Remove duplicate letters to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 17 May 2001 09:19:21

>><snip>
>>>Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as
>possible.
>>>To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them
>in a
>>>year is absurd...

>>>Eldred

>>Don't forget that this is F1 we're talking about here. Politics always has
>>and always will be a major part of F1. Afterall, it wouldn't be the biggest

>>soap opera on wheels with out it! :-)

>>Leo
>Hi Eldred,

>Calm down. I was just pointing out another variable in the equation.
>Who knows what Ferarri put into the contract when they license their
>engines (Sauber and Prost). Besides, Peter Sauber and Alain Prost are
>probably have much more close to Ferrari than say BAR or Maclaren.
>Sometimes these things count for something when their car is being
>lapped. As for fighting for position, obviously they can't just throw
>away points and let cars through.

Calm down? I didn't realize I was e***d...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Ben Colema** » Thu, 17 May 2001 10:19:02

>Calm down? I didn't realize I was e***d...

>Eldred

That's the problem with the Red Mist....you don't realise you're e***d
until too late!!

Ben

by **Eldre** » Thu, 17 May 2001 19:01:35

>>Calm down? I didn't realize I was e***d...

>>Eldred

>That's the problem with the Red Mist....you don't realise you're e***d
>until too late!!

>Ben

Oh, phooey to you...<G>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.