rec.autos.simulators

by **Christoph Schirme** » Sun, 13 Feb 2005 08:18:00

I am sure that FILSCA is the form - but we need more active members.
Without active members, the form will surely not work.

A top-down commercial approach with investments - used to hand out
small goodies or to set up a big event or both - could surely gather
more people faster, but would it also stay for representing the
diversity in online racing - the different leagues, the different sims
etc. that FILSCA preserves? I doubt so.

> >I didn't like the idea then, and i don't like the idea now.

> I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small
> groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will
inevitably
> go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move on,
> retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3 setups
> recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems
like
> the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd propose
> it's worth paying a small fee to maintain).

> Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an
> orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I
imagine
> there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the
> non-member player.

> Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the
moment
> they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if
they
> were. However neither can change from the outside.

by **Ron Ayto** » Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:30:44

Hi Mac, long time no see... :) Hope you have been keeping well.
I tend to agree with the basics of your thoughts, though FILSCA is far from
the democratic approach that i would be looking for in a centralised
governing body for sim racers world wide.
Something like FILSCA would have some benefits to the sim racer as a whole,
but it should not be run by a self appointed few, the board should be
selected from the sim base world wide, maybe using RAS as a voting pool.
I am just speculating anyway....
The trouble with these virtual systems of management is that they start out
with good intentions, then the power usually gets to those in charge, from
there it is a downhill slide untill the regular sim racer gets tired of a
central body telling him/her what they can do and what they can't do.
You yourself know what the feeling was amongst early GPL players when a
select few (no names mentioned) thought they were the bees knees of GPL.
That split the GPL community into two basic groups, those that thought they
were better than everyone else and the rest, which compromised the average
sim racer, be they fast, slow or indifferent.
FILSCA will not work or be viable without a fully democratic (open to all
sim racers) voting system and i can't see that ever happening as some people
will not give up the reigns of power once they sample it.

Cheers,
Ron.

by **Christoph Schirme** » Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:26:16

FILSCA is not a governing body for sim racers world wide. Sim racers
would include non-league racers and offline racers as well. FILSCA is
an association of leagues - of leagues who voluntarily join.

FILSCA is also far from excercising power over leagues - it is a
platform where leagues can help each other and where the leagues their
drivers and their teams are presented together.

One of the simplest advantages is e.g. this: the results as provided in
GTR are far from any standard. Each league will have a hard work to
provide results or to process these data into their databases. Within
FILSCA one member admin coded the parser, and within the next few days,
maybe even from tomorrow any member league can upload GTR results and
gets automatically the results and standings. Even if you have
something as the RA, you still get extensive statistics and everything.

Another league which rents out servers, provides a free server for all
member leagues or for team tests.

There are further aspirations than that of course, and we'll see how it
develops. Surely not by discussing about world governments or by
dissing GPLers. But you can always join and help - there is a lot to
do. And I go back to work now.

Christoph Schirmer

> > I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small
> > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will
inevitably
> > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move
on,
> > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3
setups
> > recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems
like
> > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd
propose
> > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain).

> > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an
> > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I
imagine
> > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the
> > non-member player.

> > Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the
moment
> > they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if
they
> > were. However neither can change from the outside.

> Hi Mac, long time no see... :) Hope you have been keeping well.
> I tend to agree with the basics of your thoughts, though FILSCA is
far from
> the democratic approach that i would be looking for in a centralised
> governing body for sim racers world wide.
> Something like FILSCA would have some benefits to the sim racer as a
whole,
> but it should not be run by a self appointed few, the board should be
> selected from the sim base world wide, maybe using RAS as a voting
pool.
> I am just speculating anyway....
> The trouble with these virtual systems of management is that they
start out
> with good intentions, then the power usually gets to those in charge,
from
> there it is a downhill slide untill the regular sim racer gets tired
of a
> central body telling him/her what they can do and what they can't do.
> You yourself know what the feeling was amongst early GPL players when
a
> select few (no names mentioned) thought they were the bees knees of
GPL.
> That split the GPL community into two basic groups, those that
thought they
> were better than everyone else and the rest, which compromised the
average
> sim racer, be they fast, slow or indifferent.
> FILSCA will not work or be viable without a fully democratic (open
to all
> sim racers) voting system and i can't see that ever happening as some
people
> will not give up the reigns of power once they sample it.

> Cheers,
> Ron.

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:11:04

It seems some of you missed the joke - the name "ASS" stinks. Maybe
those who think their shit doesn't stink wouldn't catch on I suppose! :)

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:36:39

Here's a retaliatory top post that also stinks! :)

"* The documents are sent to representatives of interested leagues upon
request."

This is the part I refer to. My point is simply that if I'm a league
admin who's not overly fussed about joining then the added hassle/wait of
this will probably just make me move on. Not to mention make people ask
themselves "Why don't they just make this stuff public". This is an insult
to the public in general and stinks of underhandedness. If there is stuff
you'd rather not post publically then why stick that in the public's face in
the first place? Just send it by email only after a league admin shows
interest! If it's a big secret then keep it a big secret! :)

You find the KISS versions at the FILSCA site:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Next, I don't find it unsimple, but only fair not to tell you any
bullshit or give you promises without providing complete information.
You may call that a bad sales strategy, or not simple. This is not a
company that wants to sell something, this is an adventure and an
enterprise that wants to see if a large group of diverse people
embedding within the sim racing community can seriously work on
something. I do not want to hide that, even if that may require you to
read a bit more and be more concentrated in doing so. And it is only
legitimate to keep the more formal things within the members - apart
from that anyone sees them before he/she joins.

Should there be really a reason to worry about someone who can't even
click a link to require more information?

If you think there is something hidden - be happy with your ***
theory.
But fact is: any league is invited to join, and anyone is getting all
information before he/she joins. There is nothing hidden to those who
are affected. And it is just good behavior and education not to wash
internal clothes outside the members area.

As I said: some issues in the statutes need to be revised, and there is
surely no sense in publishing something where the leagues do not have
had the chance to discuss this exensively. Once that is done, t will
be publicly available anyway.

> > >The rules are sent to any applicant (sorry Art, still no
> >> mail from you re. your league, so you do not have received the
rules

> Like leagues that wish to attract drivers, you need to make
everything
> simple to understand and easy to join. All this under the table stuff
is
> ridiculous - no wonder there's all this paranoia about - it looks
like
> you're hiding something. And you are! I'd get rid of all that
nonsense ASAP.

> As it is most league admins are probably umming and ahhing about
joining
> anyway. Making things difficult as you do just makes them forget you
and
> just get on with their own leagues. KISS. (ask what this means at
your own
> risk).

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:18:28

I must say I don't know how anyone could be threatened by FILSCA, even
if they did have a sinister agenda. They can only have the power to attract
leagues by offering clear benifits and little to no inconvenience -
otherwise why would anyone join? But they do seem to have some secrets which
is, of course, a clear indication of evil.

> FILSCA is not a governing body for sim racers world wide. Sim racers
> would include non-league racers and offline racers as well. FILSCA is
> an association of leagues - of leagues who voluntarily join.

> FILSCA is also far from excercising power over leagues - it is a
> platform where leagues can help each other and where the leagues their
> drivers and their teams are presented together.

> One of the simplest advantages is e.g. this: the results as provided in
> GTR are far from any standard. Each league will have a hard work to
> provide results or to process these data into their databases. Within
> FILSCA one member admin coded the parser, and within the next few days,
> maybe even from tomorrow any member league can upload GTR results and
> gets automatically the results and standings. Even if you have
> something as the RA, you still get extensive statistics and everything.

> Another league which rents out servers, provides a free server for all
> member leagues or for team tests.

> There are further aspirations than that of course, and we'll see how it
> develops. Surely not by discussing about world governments or by
> dissing GPLers. But you can always join and help - there is a lot to
> do. And I go back to work now.

> Christoph Schirmer

>> > I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small
>> > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will
> inevitably
>> > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move
> on,
>> > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3
> setups
>> > recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems
> like
>> > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd
> propose
>> > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain).

>> > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an
>> > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I
> imagine
>> > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the
>> > non-member player.

>> > Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the
> moment
>> > they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if
> they
>> > were. However neither can change from the outside.

>> Hi Mac, long time no see... :) Hope you have been keeping well.
>> I tend to agree with the basics of your thoughts, though FILSCA is
> far from
>> the democratic approach that i would be looking for in a centralised
>> governing body for sim racers world wide.
>> Something like FILSCA would have some benefits to the sim racer as a
> whole,
>> but it should not be run by a self appointed few, the board should be

>> selected from the sim base world wide, maybe using RAS as a voting
> pool.
>> I am just speculating anyway....
>> The trouble with these virtual systems of management is that they
> start out
>> with good intentions, then the power usually gets to those in charge,
> from
>> there it is a downhill slide untill the regular sim racer gets tired
> of a
>> central body telling him/her what they can do and what they can't do.
>> You yourself know what the feeling was amongst early GPL players when
> a
>> select few (no names mentioned) thought they were the bees knees of
> GPL.
>> That split the GPL community into two basic groups, those that
> thought they
>> were better than everyone else and the rest, which compromised the
> average
>> sim racer, be they fast, slow or indifferent.
>> FILSCA will not work or be viable without a fully democratic (open
> to all
>> sim racers) voting system and i can't see that ever happening as some
> people
>> will not give up the reigns of power once they sample it.

>> Cheers,
>> Ron.

by **Christoph Schirme** » Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:49:42

Honestly I don't know of any secrets - but it were really if a member
admin could say something about that as no one believes me here :LOL:

The only definite downside that the members have not yet been engaged
enough and that there is a lack of man power to be more attractive for
more leagues.

> I must say I don't know how anyone could be threatened by FILSCA,
even
> if they did have a sinister agenda. They can only have the power to
attract
> leagues by offering clear benifits and little to no inconvenience -
> otherwise why would anyone join? But they do seem to have some
secrets which
> is, of course, a clear indication of evil.

> > FILSCA is not a governing body for sim racers world wide. Sim
racers
> > would include non-league racers and offline racers as well. FILSCA
is
> > an association of leagues - of leagues who voluntarily join.

> > FILSCA is also far from excercising power over leagues - it is a
> > platform where leagues can help each other and where the leagues
their
> > drivers and their teams are presented together.

> > One of the simplest advantages is e.g. this: the results as
provided in
> > GTR are far from any standard. Each league will have a hard work
to
> > provide results or to process these data into their databases.
Within
> > FILSCA one member admin coded the parser, and within the next few
days,
> > maybe even from tomorrow any member league can upload GTR results
and
> > gets automatically the results and standings. Even if you have
> > something as the RA, you still get extensive statistics and
everything.

> > Another league which rents out servers, provides a free server for
all
> > member leagues or for team tests.

> > There are further aspirations than that of course, and we'll see
how it
> > develops. Surely not by discussing about world governments or by
> > dissing GPLers. But you can always join and help - there is a lot
to
> > do. And I go back to work now.

> > Christoph Schirmer

> >> > I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or
small
> >> > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will
> > inevitably
> >> > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move
> > on,
> >> > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3
> > setups
> >> > recently for example). An elected club-style organization
seems
> > like
> >> > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd
> > propose
> >> > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain).

> >> > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an
> >> > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I
> > imagine
> >> > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the
> >> > non-member player.

> >> > Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the
> > moment
> >> > they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even
if
> > they
> >> > were. However neither can change from the outside.

> >> Hi Mac, long time no see... :) Hope you have been keeping
well.
> >> I tend to agree with the basics of your thoughts, though FILSCA is
> > far from
> >> the democratic approach that i would be looking for in a
centralised
> >> governing body for sim racers world wide.
> >> Something like FILSCA would have some benefits to the sim racer as
a
> > whole,
> >> but it should not be run by a self appointed few, the board should
be

> >> selected from the sim base world wide, maybe using RAS as a voting
> > pool.
> >> I am just speculating anyway....
> >> The trouble with these virtual systems of management is that they
> > start out
> >> with good intentions, then the power usually gets to those in
charge,
> > from
> >> there it is a downhill slide untill the regular sim racer gets
tired
> > of a
> >> central body telling him/her what they can do and what they can't
do.
> >> You yourself know what the feeling was amongst early GPL players
when
> > a
> >> select few (no names mentioned) thought they were the bees knees
of
> > GPL.
> >> That split the GPL community into two basic groups, those that
> > thought they
> >> were better than everyone else and the rest, which compromised the
> > average
> >> sim racer, be they fast, slow or indifferent.
> >> FILSCA will not work or be viable without a fully democratic
(open
> > to all
> >> sim racers) voting system and i can't see that ever happening as
some
> > people
> >> will not give up the reigns of power once they sample it.

> >> Cheers,
> >> Ron.

rec.autos.simulators

What do you think of FILSCA?

What do you think of FILSCA?

What do you think of FILSCA?

What do you think of FILSCA?

What do you think of FILSCA?

What do you think of FILSCA?

What do you think of FILSCA?

What do you think of FILSCA?