rec.autos.simulators

by **Clee** » Thu, 13 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> >Having done a bit of driving at (and sometimes beyond) the limit in
> >Skip Barber's cars, it's fairly apparent to me that feeling the
> >self-aligning torque of the front wheels and the rotational
> >accelerations of your body are critical to good car control. I'd love
> >to see a force feedback unit that could deliver the correct "feel"
> >from an authenticate physics model. (Unfortunately, such a device will
> >not be built for less that $1000 in the next several years, from what
> >I can see...)

> Curious if you've had a chance to try out Thrustmaster's upcoming feedback
> steering wheel? I'm hoping force-feedback will add quite a lot to the
> driving sim experience.

> >ObPlug for Skip Barber (or the equivalent presumably): If you can
> >afford it, it's a fantastic experience. The three day competition
> >course taught me more than any other three days in my life (at least
> >about driving race cars :-) )

> Also curious how much the driving course at Skip Barber costs?
> I'm planning on spending quite a bit to go see one of the European F1 races in
> the next year or two and wondering if racing school might be worth the
> money first.

> >>Let's hope maybe some of the programmers and producers of future driving sims
> >>will stumble on this thread and make these things a reality :-)

> >Oh, we're watching...

> >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

> And we sure do appreciate it too Jim, keep up the good work :-)
> Glad to have you here.

> Cheers.

> --John
> --
> Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks.
> ------------------------------+--------------------------

> Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.racesimcentral.net/~jsilva

The force feedback steering wheel is what alot of us have been waiting for. I tried out a prototype from
Thrustmaster, and it felt pretty good. There is a slight tug on cornering, which gradually gets stronger as
you corner harder. When you hit a wall or other cars, it jolts. It even registers driving on grass with a
light rumble. My only complaint is that the feedback didn't have enough force, but the final version I'm told
would be much stronger and forceful. My only question is how durable will the steering wheel be. It really
brings sims one major step closer to the real thing. This peripheral will be a NECESSITY.

Clee

by **Ed Benso** » Thu, 13 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> >I watched F1 qualifying for the Australian GP this weekend and it was great
> >to see the terrific car control that the drivers were able to use, getting
> >sideways in the corners or bouncing all over the place while braking
> >over a bumpy corner, and still being able to correct the car enough to keep
> >it from going into a spin. As I watched that, I was thinking just how far off
> >most of the driving sims are at being able to let us the driver "feel" the car
> >at these extreme conditions before it is too late and we are already spinning.

> Having done a bit of driving at (and sometimes beyond) the limit in
> Skip Barber's cars, it's fairly apparent to me that feeling the
> self-aligning torque of the front wheels and the rotational
> accelerations of your body are critical to good car control. I'd love
> to see a force feedback unit that could deliver the correct "feel"
> from an authenticate physics model. (Unfortunately, such a device will
> not be built for less that $1000 in the next several years, from what
> I can see...)

> ObPlug for Skip Barber (or the equivalent presumably): If you can
> afford it, it's a fantastic experience. The three day competition
> course taught me more than any other three days in my life (at least
> about driving race cars :-) )

> >I agree with all the other points you mentioned, for me though I tend to judge
> >a driving sim by it's driving model most of all.

> >Let's hope maybe some of the programmers and producers of future driving sims
> >will stumble on this thread and make these things a reality :-)

> Oh, we're watching...

> ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I'd like to add, in Papyrus's defense, that one of the things I love the
most about N2 is the excellent amount of "feel" that the game does give
you. The (I assume) slightly exagerated pitch and roll are things I have
long wanted, as well as the (this I know) exagerated tire squeal.
Also, it is possible to get sideways and recover, in both N1 and N2.
True, it would be a lot easier if you could feel the wheel tighten up or
go spft, or feel the roll of the car, but current techno in mind I think
Papy did an excellent job.
--
Ed

"A friend of mine suggested I try America Online, I said 'But I already
have
a computer...'"

by **Bill Jenki** » Fri, 14 Mar 1997 04:00:00

>> > Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream
>> > sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-)

>> Better make sure you got Papyrus on your payroll...If anything, they'll
>> probably have the better modem routines. :)

>> Marc

>When I win the Lottery, I will buy the 'Williams' full size sim (they
>use full size cars uno!) Sack Frank, get Damon back as No.2 driver, and
>drive the other car myself......somebody wake me up!!!!!

>Jammer (UK)

If you've ever driven "Hard Drivin'" or its superior sibling "Race Drivin'",
produced a few years ago by Atari as an arcade machine, you know how these
feedback steering wheels add to the experience. Among the cars you can drive
are a "simulated" (name removed, of course) Ferrari something or other, with
waay to much horsepower. While everyone else ran on the "stunt" tracks, I
stuck to the little road course, basically just a flat oval. Going around one
of the corners, you queeze into the throttle, a bit more, a bit more...Until
you FEEL the car begin to oversteer. It's a wierd sensation, but you can
actually feel the uneasiness in the chassis, and then, finally, when the tires
DO break loose. It's then just a matter of countersteering...But the feedback
steering wheels REALLY make a difference!

by **'John' Joao Sil** » Sat, 15 Mar 1997 04:00:00

>The force feedback steering wheel is what alot of us have been waiting for. I tried out a prototype from
>Thrustmaster, and it felt pretty good. There is a slight tug on cornering, which gradually gets stronger as
>you corner harder. When you hit a wall or other cars, it jolts. It even registers driving on grass with a
>light rumble. My only complaint is that the feedback didn't have enough force, but the final version I'm told
>would be much stronger and forceful. My only question is how durable will the steering wheel be. It really
>brings sims one major step closer to the real thing. This peripheral will be a NECESSITY.

>Clee

Sounds nice, I hope the software that supports force-feedback will include
some feedback on the wheel for when the tires are about to break loose,
sure would go a long way toward preventing spins.

I will probably end up getting Thrustmaster's new wheel when it comes
out, the $99 I spent on the T-2 almost two years ago has been worth
every dollar ten times over in the amount of enjoyment I've gotten out of
driving sims since.

Cheers.

--John
--
Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks.
------------------------------+--------------------------

Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

by **Nigel Nichol** » Sat, 15 Mar 1997 04:00:00

I have been thinking about writing in and suggesting some of
my ideas for a dream sim. (More Nascar)

I to tend to base a lot of emphasis on the driving model. I
was e***d to hell when it was confirmed to me that I would
be able to spin the rear tires in Nascar 2 because it ment I
could get the V8 engine to light up as well as turn the car
around in the case of a spinout, not to mention burning ***
out of the pit stall.

Now to add to the thrill I need the clutch coded into Nascar.
(My home built pedals has the clutch fitted and is used in
with Nascar by wiring the gear lever through a switch at the
clutch pedal forcing me to jab the clutch pedal otherwise the
gears won't change.)

Being able to rev the engine and drop the clutch to spin the
wheels would be cool. Then it could be added that there
is the possiblity to stall the engine, meaning I would have to
push a button to refire the engine.

Now at the start of the race imagine this.

You go into the race. You are presented with the
familiar***pit screen but you are on the pit road and the
engine is not running, your transmission is in neutral. You
can hear the murmur of the crowd and then a voice say,
"Drivers, start your engines".
Just before you reach to the start button you hear some of the
other cars fire up. You press the button, there is a small
click quickly followed by a wir of the starter motor, you pump
the gas pedal and your V8 engine roars into life. You jab the
gas a couple of times to check all is Ok. You press the clutch
in and select first gear. You give the engine a little more
gas and ease out the clutch. The cars start to roll out onto
the track behind the pace car for the pace lap and back to
normal for the green flag.
During a spin out if your don't get your foot on the clutch
you run the risk of stalling the engine forcing you to refire
it once you have come to stop.
And reverse would be one more down shift from neutral, and
then pressing the gas pedal to back up.

--

Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports
Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy
Hamilton
New Zealand

by **Antoine Renau** » Sun, 16 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Of course you wouldn't want Jacques Villeneuve as a teammate, he's too
fast and wouldn't give you any chance to win...

A. Renault

by **Gregory Fu** » Mon, 17 Mar 1997 04:00:00

>Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream
>sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-)

If I wind the lottery, I'm going to go racing for real, hopefully moving
up into sports cars & Touring Cars. Sims are only good for me because
it is affordable :)

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

by **Richard K.B. Marte** » Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:00:00

>>Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream
>>sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-)

>If I wind the lottery, I'm going to go racing for real, hopefully moving
>up into sports cars & Touring Cars. Sims are only good for me because
>it is affordable :)

>Gregory Fung

>Vancouver, B.C., Canada

You hit the nail on the head there Gregory!!! The first thing I would do (well after I paid off my credit cards) would be to sign up at Skip Barber's racing school. Maybe start out in the Barber/Dodge series, move up through the ranks. It would be great to make it to the CART series, but I could be happy to be racing in IMSA or even some of the higher level club sereies!

Later,

Rick Martel

by **Dave Hawn** » Wed, 19 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> >When I win the Lottery, I will buy the 'Williams' full size sim (they
> >use full size cars uno!) Sack Frank, get Damon back as No.2 driver, and
> >drive the other car myself......somebody wake me up!!!!!

> >Jammer (UK)

> Of course you wouldn't want Jacques Villeneuve as a teammate, he's too
> fast and wouldn't give you any chance to win...

> A. Renault

Look Mate, all the best GP drivers are English (or Scotish) don't yer
know! Villeneuve is only a Canadian dreamer....no good being fast if
your dumped out at the first corner ;-)

Jammer (UK)

by **Nigel Nichol** » Fri, 21 Mar 1997 04:00:00

I would like to see more engine problems that need attention
in the pits such as,

1 Egnition misfire,
2 Oil and\or water leaks.
3 Code for a clutch and neutral gear, making the possiblity to
stall the engine and have to refire it, especially due to a
spin out.

--

Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports
Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy
Hamilton
New Zealand

by **ymenar** » Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> >Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream
> >sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-)

And If I would win the lottery, I would buy the license for

1) The Indianapolis Motor Speedway
2) The Daytona Intl. Speedway
3) Mont-Tremblant License (Old F1 track in Quebec)
4) All other tracks that Papyrus didn't have the money to have to
License.

and I would donate them to Papyrus so that they could give them free to
all the simracers around the world and make people
HAPPY!HAPPY!HAPPY!HAPPY!HAPPY!

Oups that was a dream :(
Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators)

[===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve,

| ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is
|!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le
|o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

[--I--]
v
Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand"
Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league)
http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/
http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/2804/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/
Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better?
May the force be with you, always!!
Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people)
Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)

by **ymenar** » Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> >Tell you what, when I win the lottery :-) I'm going to have the dream
> >sim made for me, employing Psygnosis and Microprose to make it :-)

Yeah and I hope that if you win the lottery you will kick out GCrammond
:) and redo the company as good as Papyrus .

Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators)

[===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve,

| ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is
|!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le
|o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

[--I--]
v
Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand"
Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league)
http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/
http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/2804/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/
Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better?
May the force be with you, always!!
Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people)
Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)

rec.autos.simulators

Dream Sim. . .

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Dream Sim. . .

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Dream Sim. . .

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Dream Sim. . .